A note on story in Custom Stories

[Mine Turtle]

(04-16-2012 03:22 PM)Adrianis Wrote:  We can go and read the old threads, and we can even post new replies, but those discussions are over, their dead and those posters have moved on. This here is a chance to discuss this topic live, with other people to read and reply, and as I said, maybe we'll get something new out of this one. It's not a problem

not a problem at all ^^ like i said, if this is where the forum's going, im more than happy to see more of these threads ^^

[Adrianis]

(04-16-2012 05:41 PM)darkadders Wrote:  

(04-16-2012 03:22 PM)Adrianis Wrote:  We can go and read the old threads, and we can even post new replies, but those discussions are over, their dead and those posters have moved on. This here is a chance to discuss this topic live, with other people to read and reply, and as I said, maybe we'll get something new out of this one. It's not a problem

not a problem at all ^^ like i said, if this is where the forum's going, im more than happy to see more of these threads ^^

Oh... Well then... Good Pleased to hear it. Discussions dead now anyway, congrats to you and your companion

[Robosprog]

(04-18-2012 09:39 PM)Adrianis Wrote:  

(04-16-2012 05:41 PM)darkadders Wrote:  

(04-16-2012 03:22 PM)Adrianis Wrote:  We can go and read the old threads, and we can even post new replies, but those discussions are over, their dead and those posters have moved on. This here is a chance to discuss this topic live, with other people to read and reply, and as I said, maybe we'll get something new out of this one. It's not a problem

not a problem at all ^^ like i said, if this is where the forum's going, im more than happy to see more of these threads ^^

Oh... Well then... Good Pleased to hear it. Discussions dead now anyway, congrats to you and your companion

Not that, just been extraordinarily busy as of late, sorry

[Robosprog]

At long last! Third part finished and added.

[Adrianis]

Excellent! More material to disagree with Before I do so, let me say I do appreciate that you've spent some time and thought on this topic and to contributing to the community for the good of all, and it's good of you to do so.

Quote: Now, there seems to be this general thought among people that torture, rape, etc make for a dark disturbing atmosphere.

This isn't true.

For example:

"The castle was full of horrific torture devices and the wives were raped by the lord when they didn't want to have sex"

That isn't disturbing at all

Now, this is difficult, because you say it isn't disturbing at all. You then proceed to explain how to use environmental storytelling to create an atmosphere that explains what is explained in that sentence.

I think what you've done here is criticize a situation that you have created yourself. To qualify, you present the above sentence as though that is what the player experiences, versus your version of what the player experiences, which is purely environmental. My problem with that is that, no one only presents that story as a sentence, you don't walk into an empty room and get a pop up message saying "The castle was full of horrific torture devices...". But actually, you did think it was horrifying when you were in a castle full of horrific torture devices and you could hear women crying out, so it is horrifying to experience that stuff, just not when you see it written in that sentence.

If that sentence appears at all, it is in the description of the game to explain the kind of thing the player can expect, which is 'bad' in our opinion but not really a problem. No one only gives that sort of sentence as the sole story experience for the player, everyone makes a map where you have the objects, noises, notes etc that suggest what's going on. Everyone uses environmental storytelling, often it may not be done well, or successfully, but they don't ever only write.

I certainly don't disagree that environmental story telling is important, and we would probably agree that it should be used more intensely in CS's than it is. It's just a dislike for the way you present it, the rest of your argument, which makes sense, is based on a criticism, and you often make criticism's of sentences that people haven't said, and situations that don't exist, as a way to sure up your own argument.

You don't need to do that, your argument doesn't need those examples of what not to do in order to make sense, it stands on it's own merits. If you do criticize it should be a criticism of the things people actually do, on the way they present their environment and atmosphere. Alternatively, just write it as advice on how to make environmental storytelling work, what you think makes a good atmosphere, and how you think people should use 'unknowns'. Leave out the bad things people haven't done, and the stupid comments that people haven't made.

[Robosprog]

(05-03-2012 07:16 PM)Adrianis Wrote:  Excellent! More material to disagree with Before I do so, let me say I do appreciate that you've spent some time and thought on this topic and to contributing to the community for the good of all, and it's good of you to do so.

Quote: Now, there seems to be this general thought among people that torture, rape, etc make for a dark disturbing atmosphere.

This isn't true.

For example:

"The castle was full of horrific torture devices and the wives were raped by the lord when they didn't want to have sex"

That isn't disturbing at all

Now, this is difficult, because you say it isn't disturbing at all. You then proceed to explain how to use environmental storytelling to create an atmosphere that explains what is explained in that sentence.

I think what you've done here is criticize a situation that you have created yourself. To qualify, you present the above sentence as though that is what the player experiences, versus your version of what the player experiences, which is purely environmental. My problem with that is that, no one only presents that story as a sentence, you don't walk into an empty room and get a pop up message saying "The castle was full of horrific torture devices...". But actually, you did think it was horrifying when you were in a castle full of horrific torture devices and you could hear women crying out, so it is horrifying to experience that stuff, just not when you see it written in that sentence.

If that sentence appears at all, it is in the description of the game to explain the kind of thing the player can expect, which is 'bad' in our opinion but not really a problem. No one only gives that sort of sentence as the sole story experience for the player, everyone makes a map where you have the objects, noises, notes etc that suggest what's going on. Everyone uses environmental storytelling, often it may not be done well, or successfully, but they don't ever only write.

I certainly don't disagree that environmental story telling is important, and we would probably agree that it should be used more intensely in CS's than it is. It's just a dislike for the way you present it, the rest of your argument, which makes sense, is based on a criticism, and you often make criticism's of sentences that people haven't said, and situations that don't exist, as a way to sure up your own argument.

You don't need to do that, your argument doesn't need those examples of what not to do in order to make sense, it stands on it's own merits. If you do criticize it should be a criticism of the things people actually do, on the way they present their environment and atmosphere. Alternatively, just write it as advice on how to make environmental storytelling work, what you think makes a good atmosphere, and how you think people should use 'unknowns'. Leave out the bad things people haven't done, and the stupid comments that people haven't made.

I create the situations I criticize so that I don't insult anyone's work generally. I was using it as something to improve - you'll see it a fair few times when I do things.

I prefer having these things so you can see the counter argument I made in my head to respond too, or for my criticism to be based off of - it makes it harder for me to just write without having an example of my counter argument or simplistic text.

[Adrianis]

Not much I can say to that really, if you already know it but you still want to do it. To anyone that recognizes what your doing, it devalues your argument, which is a shame. You make perfectly valid points but the basis of it is counter-factual as it is a criticism or response to an unrealistic problem

[Kman]

[Adrianis]

Hahaaaa yeh that about sums it up

EDIT: F*ck I actually started reading what's written on it too...

[Adny]

(05-03-2012 11:44 PM)kman Wrote:  

pfft, like you've never written a wall of text at least OP used paragraphs!