Theory of the Shadow [SPOILERS.]

[Airyll]

(01-26-2011 05:29 AM)Zoridium JackL Wrote:  i think you misunderstood, i probably should have said over complicating, it stands to reason that people are finding floors in the story that don't exist and then coming up with a complicated plot solution to fill up the holes that they have "found" in the story where none exist, for example, why doesn't the shadow kill daniel in that particular ending, so they come up with a theory such as "the shadow doesn't exist it's just his imagination" or a multitude of other reasons when the logical reason is that it was never after daniel in the first place, which it wasn't, but everyone assumed that it was,

in other words, the try to fix what isn't broken, i'm fine with that but it just seems a little too complicated, i prefer something that is simple, fits and explains everything nicely, which half these theories aren't.

Where did you get that the Shadow was never after Daniel? Because the fact of the matter is that the Shadow is after Daniel and chasing after him the entire game. It's not because it has anything against Daniel in particular but it is related to the fact that it's going after the stolen Orb and kills anybody in it's path that came into some contact with the Orb, and the person carrying it. The fact Daniel survived in this one scenario is not a flaw more than it is something you are supposed to interpret! Nobody is overly complicating things because this is designed to get you asking "Why?"

The Shadow was after Daniel through the entire game however and I think just saying "It was never after him" when it's clearly stated several times over that it is, and every single other ending would also suggest the shame, is just... well it's almost a lazy way out. You aren't even simplifying anything by saying this, because it just seems to deny a good part of the story. Daniel dies in every other ending because, like all the people killed by the Shadow whom Daniel merely spoke to about the Orb, he is in the path of retrieval for the Shadow. Since we can assume this creature a near merciless being while in pursuit of an Orb, it would kill Daniel the instant it caught him because he has a direct connection to the orb and is in the "path" of the Shadow as it tries to get the Orb back.

You are right. Nothing is broken in the fact Daniel survived a particular plot. But to say we are trying to "fix" something is untrue as well; we aren't fixing anything but doing what you would assume the developers wanted us to do and using our heads to explore why something didn't happen when in all other cases, it does.

[Zoridium JackL]

(01-26-2011 07:03 AM)Airyll Wrote:  

(01-26-2011 05:29 AM)Zoridium JackL Wrote:  i think you misunderstood, i probably should have said over complicating, it stands to reason that people are finding floors in the story that don't exist and then coming up with a complicated plot solution to fill up the holes that they have "found" in the story where none exist, for example, why doesn't the shadow kill daniel in that particular ending, so they come up with a theory such as "the shadow doesn't exist it's just his imagination" or a multitude of other reasons when the logical reason is that it was never after daniel in the first place, which it wasn't, but everyone assumed that it was,

in other words, the try to fix what isn't broken, i'm fine with that but it just seems a little too complicated, i prefer something that is simple, fits and explains everything nicely, which half these theories aren't.

Where did you get that the Shadow was never after Daniel? Because the fact of the matter is that the Shadow is after Daniel and chasing after him the entire game. It's not because it has anything against Daniel in particular but it is related to the fact that it's going after the stolen Orb and kills anybody in it's path that came into some contact with the Orb, and the person carrying it. The fact Daniel survived in this one scenario is not a flaw more than it is something you are supposed to interpret! Nobody is overly complicating things because this is designed to get you asking "Why?"

The Shadow was after Daniel through the entire game however and I think just saying "It was never after him" when it's clearly stated several times over that it is, and every single other ending would also suggest the shame, is just... well it's almost a lazy way out. You aren't even simplifying anything by saying this, because it just seems to deny a good part of the story. Daniel dies in every other ending because, like all the people killed by the Shadow whom Daniel merely spoke to about the Orb, he is in the path of retrieval for the Shadow. Since we can assume this creature a near merciless being while in pursuit of an Orb, it would kill Daniel the instant it caught him because he has a direct connection to the orb and is in the "path" of the Shadow as it tries to get the Orb back.

You are right. Nothing is broken in the fact Daniel survived a particular plot. But to say we are trying to "fix" something is untrue as well; we aren't fixing anything but doing what you would assume the developers wanted us to do and using our heads to explore why something didn't happen when in all other cases, it does.

point out to me ANYWHERE within anything related to amnesia where the shadow appears and yells "I"LL GET YOU DANIEL! IF IT"S THE LAST THING I DO" it couldn't care less about daniel, it want's the orb, there is a difference between wanting someone, and wanting something they've got, honestly, it's stated several times that the shadow is after Daniel... by who? oh yes, alexander and daniel, well, i'm sure it feels to Daniel like the shadow is after daniel, but the shadow has a history of catching up to whoever has the orb and then just taking the orb, without killing them (it's in some note somewhere) everyone assumes that the shadow wants to kill daniel, give me one reason why a being that was created for the sole purpose of guarding the orb would after retrieving the orb proceed to kill the person who had it, there isn't one, because it wouldn't, think of it like a path, daniel is creating the path, every person that he comes in direct contact with about the orb becomes another step, therefore the shadow goes to them, now, it will kill them because they are now between it and the orb, in the end, if daniel and the orb are in the same room, what makes more sense, take the object that is the sole purpose of your being, or kill the guy that isn't at all trying to stop you, it makes no sense,

you have invented the same hole as everyone else, it has no reason to kill daniel, therefore it doesn't, you have made the assumption that the orbs purpose is to kill people, and then get the orb, but it is simple to get the orb and keep it safe, i don't care whether you think that it was desighn choice to get people to use their imaginations to figure the story out for themselves, but i can assure you that it wasn't, it's just one of those things that are affected by people's understanding, and when daniel says the orb is after him everyone assumes it is, it isn't, and that is the simple fact.

[hollowleviathan]

(01-26-2011 08:38 AM)Zoridium JackL Wrote:  point out to me ANYWHERE within anything related to amnesia where the shadow appears and yells "I"LL GET YOU DANIEL! IF IT"S THE LAST THING I DO" it couldn't care less about daniel

It repeatedly infested and grew into areas which were not direct paths from where it had previously manifested towards where the orb(s) lay, but instead following Daniel. It's outside in the trees, it's blocking him at the beginning from progressing and grows away from the inner sanctum to impede his progress.

[Zoridium JackL]

(01-26-2011 09:33 AM)hollowleviathan Wrote:  

(01-26-2011 08:38 AM)Zoridium JackL Wrote:  point out to me ANYWHERE within anything related to amnesia where the shadow appears and yells "I"LL GET YOU DANIEL! IF IT"S THE LAST THING I DO" it couldn't care less about daniel

It repeatedly infested and grew into areas which were not direct paths from where it had previously manifested towards where the orb(s) lay, but instead following Daniel. It's outside in the trees, it's blocking him at the beginning from progressing and grows away from the inner sanctum to impede his progress.

no, it just grows towards the inner sanctum, i don't ever recall it impeding me except for the beginning, and even then, if it was there, and were after Daniel, it would have killed him there, it is never after Daniel, just the orb, pure, simple, fact. also, you assume that it moves from one area to the next, as opposed to consuming everything between it and the orb, so near the end it has probably manifested itself in most of the castle, not just the places you have seen it.

[hollowleviathan]

It's really not fact, it's still speculation, even if you're sure. It also follows Daniel past the orb pedestal into the final chamber with him and Alexander despite no orbs contained therein.

[davva]

tl;dr

make it shorter

[Airyll]

(01-26-2011 08:38 AM)Zoridium JackL Wrote:  snip

Clearly you are making your own holes. You really did take the lazy way out. Riddle me this, Reckons-S/He-Knows-It-All:

If the Shadow is not after Daniel but only the Orb, why does it follow Daniel into the Inner Sanctum when the Orb is outside of the Inner Sanctum in a pedastool, ripe for the taking?

OH SNAP! Did I just find a huge flaw in your logic? Yes, yes sir I certainly did.

If that's not satisfactory enough, Reckons-S/He-Knows-It-All, then riddle me this:

Ignoring the fact the Shadow actively chases (yes, chases) Daniel throughout the entire game and in fact, all over the bloody world, it also kills anybody who came into contact with the Orb as it follows the Orb's path. Now also ignoring the fact the Orb is not with Daniel end the end of the game, hurrdurr, why does Daniel die in every other ending?

OH SNAP! Did I just find another huge flaw in your logic? Yes, yes sir I certainly did.

It's one thing to go around saying people are making things too complicated just because hurrdurryoudon'tagreeandpossessnoimaginationhurrdurr but it's another thing entirely to then come up with such a ridiculous logic that makes no sense and run around screaming it's a fact.

Here's a real fact for you, sonny-Jim: unless you made this game, and unless you're talking about actual in-game events everybody sees through and plays through and is written out in stone? You don't know the facts either. Kindly stick that in your pipe and smoke it before parading around like some Reckons-S/He-Knows-It-All and claiming you know for a fact what happened when you know as little as the rest of us. You're as much a mere mortal as we are and you know nothing more or nothing less, your idea is as much of a THEORY as mine.

(Oh, and for that matter, your THEORY has twice as many holes in it and goes against several events in the game that totally contradict your THEORY. Did I happen to mention your idea is only a THEORY and you shouldn't call it a fact?)

[Zoridium JackL]

(01-27-2011 02:39 AM)Airyll Wrote:  

(01-26-2011 08:38 AM)Zoridium JackL Wrote:  snip

Clearly you are making your own holes. You really did take the lazy way out. Riddle me this, Reckons-S/He-Knows-It-All:

If the Shadow is not after Daniel but only the Orb, why does it follow Daniel into the Inner Sanctum when the Orb is outside of the Inner Sanctum in a pedastool, ripe for the taking?

OH SNAP! Did I just find a huge flaw in your logic? Yes, yes sir I certainly did.

If that's not satisfactory enough, Reckons-S/He-Knows-It-All, then riddle me this:

Ignoring the fact the Shadow actively chases (yes, chases) Daniel throughout the entire game and in fact, all over the bloody world, it also kills anybody who came into contact with the Orb as it follows the Orb's path. Now also ignoring the fact the Orb is not with Daniel end the end of the game, hurrdurr, why does Daniel die in every other ending?

OH SNAP! Did I just find another huge flaw in your logic? Yes, yes sir I certainly did.

It's one thing to go around saying people are making things too complicated just because hurrdurryoudon'tagreeandpossessnoimaginationhurrdurr but it's another thing entirely to then come up with such a ridiculous logic that makes no sense and run around screaming it's a fact.

Here's a real fact for you, sonny-Jim: unless you made this game, and unless you're talking about actual in-game events everybody sees through and plays through and is written out in stone? You don't know the facts either. Kindly stick that in your pipe and smoke it before parading around like some Reckons-S/He-Knows-It-All and claiming you know for a fact what happened when you know as little as the rest of us. You're as much a mere mortal as we are and you know nothing more or nothing less, your idea is as much of a THEORY as mine.

(Oh, and for that matter, your THEORY has twice as many holes in it and goes against several events in the game that totally contradict your THEORY. Did I happen to mention your idea is only a THEORY and you shouldn't call it a fact?)

u mad?

because really, you realize the orb in the pedestal isn't the orb daniel found hurr durr, it's Alexanders, sooooooooooooo, Alexander is using daniels orb to open the portal, that's why ha needed it, to open the portal, and why does daniel die on every other ending, gee, i don't know, if you wnat to know why what happens in each endng IMO then look for a thread i posted in earlier because i don't feel like re-typing it,

also... implying that my logic contradicts several different events, care to mention them,because really, if you can make my logic moot then great, i'll re think it, but so far you haven't disproved shit all.

sorry for dismembering your whole argument/rant.

---

(01-26-2011 10:31 PM)hollowleviathan Wrote:  It's really not fact, it's still speculation, even if you're sure. It also follows Daniel past the orb pedestal into the final chamber with him and Alexander despite no orbs contained therein.

see above, and yeah, it's fact, at least, it's the only uncomplicated explanation that fits all endings and events accurately and without making any drastic assumptions and using only what has been learned... that's as close as you can get without the devs stepping in, which would be nice.

[hollowleviathan]

Can everyone please calm down and try to keep a civil tone.

(01-27-2011 03:50 AM)Zoridium JackL Wrote:  and yeah, it's fact, at least, it's the only uncomplicated explanation that fits all endings and events accurately and without making any drastic assumptions and using only what has been learned... that's as close as you can get without the devs stepping in, which would be nice.

That just means it is, in your opinion, the best theory. Calling it a fact is just provocative.

[Zoridium JackL]

(01-27-2011 09:56 AM)hollowleviathan Wrote:  Can everyone please calm down and try to keep a civil tone.

(01-27-2011 03:50 AM)Zoridium JackL Wrote:  and yeah, it's fact, at least, it's the only uncomplicated explanation that fits all endings and events accurately and without making any drastic assumptions and using only what has been learned... that's as close as you can get without the devs stepping in, which would be nice.

That just means it is, in your opinion, the best theory. Calling it a fact is just provocative.

to me it's fact, just deal with it, and i am calm, he just mad.