Monsters origin?

[Kein]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmXWI-Lhu6M

I'd liek to talk about monsters existence in Amnesia. Yes, why so surprised? I doubt it, indeed -- just watch the video.

Now, there is few questions pop ups: what prisoner saw in that man?
And why monsters SUDDENLY appear or disappear without an trace? Or why you can't be killed at all, and when you woke up - there is no monsters. Or why neither Agrippa (when you first time meet him or any other time when you "talk" with him) or Alexander (in a prison when some monster brought you there) even mentioned those monsters? May be they (the monsters) exist only in Daniel's mind which full of madness? Agrippa mentioned that even broken Orb "leak madness", so, may be Daniel was way to long under that effect and it made him crazy. Or, it made him easy to be deluded by Alexander's skills (as we know he really has some), and all those monster just an illusion made by Alexander's mind in order to confuse, stop intruders/Daniel. Or may be they are really humans, but Daniel see them as a monster affected by Alexander's powers.

And yes, I know that there is a moment in the game where we feed some meal to invisible monster, but hat hardly works as a support thesis for real monsters existence, since that invisible enemy is.. invisible. Do he really exist?

Many theories and no answer. Your suggestions?

[dvow]

Actually Alexander did mention the monsters a few times, and I got the idea that he controls them. He once even orders the monsters to chase Daniel. Toward the end of the game, he says 'Well find him! Find him!' and seems to be able to order the monsters around. So there is a definite connection there between Alexander and those things. Alexander even says 'I can see what they see' near the end, indicating that he has a lot of control over those creatures.

Hmm, this can't be said for the water monster. The water monster, or lurker, or k-something--I forgot the name--is a real monster, without a doubt. You can feed it, and you even need some fluids from it for a mixture. I don't think Alexander has any control over the water monster.

One thing that really breaks your thesis apart is that there are other ways to die than to the monsters, and you 'wake up' from those deaths too. You can fall from too far, run into rotating blades, die from poisonous gas, or be killed by the water monster, which by all counts is real. I honestly don't think those things were in Daniel's mind. You even find a monster body that was killed by the shadow's slime at one point.

[Kein]

Quote:Actually Alexander did mention the monsters a few times

I never encountered any. Did he used "monster" word? Could you printscreen some replies?

Quote:He once even orders the monsters to chase Daniel. Toward the end of the game, he says 'Well find him! Find him!'

He has some kind of power to control people, manipulate them. It simply can be the normal people, which mind is controlled by Alexander, who deluded the Daniel's mind as well (so he can see only monsters). May be the amnesia plays some role and prevent Daniel to be controlled as well.

Quote:Alexander even says 'I can see what they see' near the end, indicating that he has a lot of control over those creatures.

he got real power with that orb, and since he controls his puppets - he can see thru their eyes too, why not?

Quote:Hmm, this can't be said for the water monster. The water monster, or lurker, or k-something--I forgot the name--is a real monster, without a doubt. You can feed it, and you even need some fluids from it for a mixture. I don't think Alexander has any control over the water monster.

Kaernk. Here it is: http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/2499/kaernk.jpg
Note that he says "in this world", means, if this creature even exist - it's from another world. Which is interesting, does that mean the Weyer is able to visit that world any time since he can bring that host just by Alexander's request? And why there is many of those monsters if Weyer did bring just one host? Or may be all those water monsters is the same one?

Quote:One thing that really breaks your thesis apart is that there are other ways to die than to the monsters, and you 'wake up' from those deaths too. You can fall from too far, run into rotating blades, die from poisonous gas, or be killed by the water monster, which by all counts is real.

True.

Quote:You even find a monster body that was killed by the shadow's slime at one point.

It's simply can be humans body ripped apart, it's just Daniel's deluded mind shows him a monster.

[nofsky]

I think Alexander refers to them as his servants, and at one point he writes that he needs to create more of them.

[dvow]

I really hate going through a reply and quoting every bit of it, so I'll try and summarize things.

He never used monster. He does use servant though, and treats them more as a creation than something you'd treat as a human being. I also actually quoted a few quotes where he was ordering the monsters around, so that's where I see as Alexander referring to them.

I took the Kaernk--thanks for finding the real name--as from another world. But I was confused on IT'S origins. I had no doubt it exists in this world, since Daniel can extract Tampter from it. I am just not sure how many exist.

As for the body. Why that body then? He saw other human bodies all over game. Why is only one body a 'monster'? What's so significant about this body when compared to the many others? You'd think his delusions wouldn't being so selective, huh? Also the shadow's 'slime'--not sure what to call it--actually kills a brute at one point, which makes me believe the slime isn't a fan of Alexander's monsters. The brute being murdered, and the monster body, can both be found/triggered in the sewers.

And what was that thing that was being prepared in the prison, and then escaped?

[SmokeSum]

I think the monsters you can see (not watermonster) are a creation of a tortured death humans that are brought back to life by the Orb, you can see the monsters excist of flesh parts nailed together with some machine parts.
The first monster looks like he has hands with knife sharp things as fingers and you can see his face has some kinda flesh mask.
The Second stronger monster is made by more machine parts with cutting blades as arms his face is ripped apart so it has no face but you can again see it is creation of flesh and machine nailed together.

The watermonster is some sort of dark spirit i think it's a creation from the shadow (that's why you can't see him)

[Kein]

(09-16-2010 08:05 AM)dvow Wrote:  And what was that thing that was being prepared in the prison, and then escaped?

???

[Maggie]

I was under the impression that they were creatures Alexander made to go out and kidnap people for him.

One of my favorite things about the game, though, is that it leaves a lot of things sort of a mystery. It doesn't feel the need to explain everything away or risk taking away any of the fear. What they did to help give you an idea of the nature of your enemies (which they also used to great effect in Penumbra) is fantastic: finding notes or books relating to folklore, rumors or local legends. That's a fantastic touch and I love how it skirts the line of coming right out and telling you what's going on. The fact that you have this level of connection to the world by hearing about other peoples' experiences or perceptions of the creatures just draws you in even further.

I wish more horror games/stories would use this, because it's a good trick. The only other example I can think of off the top of my head is from a movie called Fire in the Sky. It's about an alien abduction that occurs in the woods, and at one point, a TV reporter mentions that this particular area has a reputation among the Native Americans who claim it's a bad place where demons come from the sky and kidnap children.

It's one small throwaway line, but it gives the story a depth that it wouldn't have otherwise.

[fruitsaladninja]

There is a note somewhere written by a man being contaced by alexander to kindap people, so the monsters didnt.

he was then lured into the wine cellar i think, where they drank something, which did something to them? eyes began to bleed ect.

Daniel writes in one entry that he describes the servants as, i cant remember the word, skulking or something similar.
I think those servants are the monsters, which alexander controls.

[Kein]

(09-16-2010 09:28 PM)Maggie Wrote:  One of my favorite things about the game, though, is that it leaves a lot of things sort of a mystery.

Or it is just a bad/not detailed setting.
In most cases it is.