Amnesia: A Machine For Pigs Discussion Topic Part 1

**Ossie** · 12-17-2012, 04:19 PM

Bridge - I'd quit while you (incorrectly) think that you're ahead if I were you - either that or keep on digging ........ give us a yell when you're at the earth's core.

**Kreekakon** · 12-17-2012, 04:21 PM

Umm, could you elaborate by exactly what you mean by that Ossie?

**Ossie** · 12-17-2012, 04:24 PM

Nope - I'm kind of tired of this thread (mainly thanks to Bridge's antics). I'll return when there's more concrete info to be shared re AAMFP - maybe then we can all get back on topic.

Bye for now.

**Bridge** · 12-17-2012, 04:39 PM

Why do you even use the internet? This is one of its most appealing features - free flow of opinions. If you are offended by what I say, call me out on it. If you don't have strong opinions to counter mine don't tell me to "quit while I (incorrectly) think I'm ahead". This is a friendly environment and no one is out of line here.

BTW, Kreekakon, I think that what opinions you have on the matter depend entirely on your definition of art. In my opinion, which I have formulated through my own experiences and through listening to people talk at great length about the issue, art is at its core communication. An artist's highest aspiration (in my opinion) is to communicate something which he thinks is worthwhile to his audience and by doing so somehow improving their lives or at least leaving them with knowledge or experience they did not have beforehand. If you disagree with this idea, fine; we just don't agree. If you do however, I don't see how you can defend obscure and pretentious works of art that condescend upon and confuse its audience.

I agree that there is a fine line between the audience being stupid and the artist being cryptic. However, I think there can be no doubt when you are dealing with fragments of a story that appear in random order. It is not thought out at all and is intended to be confusing. I don't go for that personally. Instead of interpreting it as a profound and multidimensional story I interpret it as a giant fuck you to the audience. I doubt very much that was the actual intention, but that is the end result in my opinion. I really do respect thechineseroom for attempting something nobody else has done before, I just don't think the final product is worthy of any praise or even acknowledgement. I think is was a colossal failure even if it was a good effort.

**h4xx0r** · 12-17-2012, 05:02 PM

Would be awesome if the game didn't alert you when a monster is near.
Maybe the sound of steps, so the player wants to know where the sound comes from.
That would make players be more surprised of a monster appearence.

**crisosphinx** · 12-17-2012, 06:43 PM

(12-17-2012, 05:02 PM)h4xx0r Wrote: Would be awesome if the game didn't alert you when a monster is near.
Maybe the sound of steps, so the player wants to know where the sound comes from.
That would make players be more surprised of a monster appearence.

You can do that. Make your own model, script it to only have footstep sounds, animate it, program it's movements... BAM. Done.

**Kreekakon** · 12-17-2012, 06:47 PM

(12-17-2012, 06:43 PM)crisosphinx Wrote: You can do that. Make your own model, script it to only have footstep sounds, animate it, program it's movements... BAM. Done.

Of course, but it's not the same as the core game mechanics having been there in the first place as opposed to it being modded in.

That's a bit like saying you shouldn't need to enjoy Half-Life 2: Episode 2's high-res textures, and lighting when compared to Half Life 2 that much just because you can easily mod Half Life 2's to match.

**crisosphinx** · 12-17-2012, 06:57 PM

To be honest, I agree with many of the main points Bridge says about art being conversational. How many of us here have graduated art college or studied in-depth about art? I know I have. Am I the oldest one here, I doubt it; however, I can tell you that from my 4 years in college learning animation, cinematography, illustration and sound design, a reasonable depiction of something, and a clear motive for placing it has to be decided beforehand.

EX.
You don't just add a blood splatter to a wall with a rose next to it... A rose, in fine art terms, stands for death. It can also mean love. A blood splatter would be the depiction of, you guessed it, death/ injury/ problems. If you have the two together, you have an artistic piece labeling itself as a struggle from inside the artists mind. Granted, they could have more behind it.

It's thought out. Just like level design. The crappy "furry art" on deviantart, where it's a sparkledog or some shit, is a depiction about nothing, but how innocent the artist is and how they can't create something worth while.

Amnesia has a story. The game play has a deeper meaning aside from just, "Hey, look at my scary monster. I'm evil, rawr." There is often a philosophical standpoint. That is why when you find out that there is a

Spoiler below!

at the end of Amnesia: The Dark Descent, the gamer then realizes that the "monsters" that are attacking the player are actually somewhat

Spoiler below!

. They story is about how disturbed you, the main character, actually are. You wanted to get away from what you were doing, because you realized it was wrong. There IS a moral to the story.

This is one reason the game is popular. It's subtle and it's relate-able on a sub-conscious level. The sheer complexity of it, whether the game developers thought about it or not, is just a part of the artist process to get that point across.

Spoiler below!

Of course, the game is open to interpretation, but those are probably the basics. Just saying. It's pretty damn clear. So, I'm just reinforcing what Bridge is saying.

EDIT:

I'm not saying the game was bad, I'm saying it was ultimately boring aside from the graphics. There was no articulated story. It was a bunch of fragments, no intro, no build up, no climax, no falloff, no conclusion, no character development.

(12-17-2012, 06:47 PM)Kreekakon Wrote:
(12-17-2012, 06:43 PM)crisosphinx Wrote: You can do that. Make your own model, script it to only have footstep sounds, animate it, program it's movements... BAM. Done.
Of course, but it's not the same as the core game mechanics having been there in the first place as opposed to it being modded in.

That's a bit like saying you shouldn't need to enjoy Half-Life 2: Episode 2's high-res textures, and lighting when compared to Half Life 2 that much just because you can easily mod Half Life 2's to match.

It sure can be. You just have to be good at it. That's why I'm an animator, donating my time to this forum (helping people) and Traggey is a modeler (who is making some free models like Acies is) and many other people are just starting to learn texturing and modeling or have been doing so for a while and got good advice from Traggey and I. Of course, you're right, it's not going to be the same, but it could be damn-near close if we pout enough time into it.

**Kreekakon** · 12-17-2012, 07:32 PM

(12-17-2012, 06:57 PM)crisosphinx Wrote: It sure can be. You just have to be good at it. That's why I'm an animator and Traggey is a modeler and everyone else is just starting to learn texturing and modeling. Of course, you're right, it's not going to be the same, but it could be damn-near close.

Oh of course! Quality wise it can come damn near close to being implanted into the product. It might even turn out better than the original if you're good enough!

The main concern I have here is more of a semi-illogical "feeling" problem. Altering a game to make it better might REALLY make it better, but you're not really going to have that full undamaged appreciation you had for the work by the devs before it was altered, because it's not completely the same work made the the devs anymore. It has some stuff which was alien to the original ORIGINAL product. You might like the work better quality wise, but you won't have that exact same appreciation you had for the developers. That level of appreciation will only go as far as the original work took them.

It's...kind of a complicated feeling, and I hope you can get my meaning.

**crisosphinx** · 12-17-2012, 07:40 PM

(12-17-2012, 07:32 PM)Kreekakon Wrote:
(12-17-2012, 06:57 PM)crisosphinx Wrote: It sure can be. You just have to be good at it. That's why I'm an animator and Traggey is a modeler and everyone else is just starting to learn texturing and modeling. Of course, you're right, it's not going to be the same, but it could be damn-near close.
Oh of course! Quality wise it can come damn near close to being implanted into the product. It might even turn out better than the original if you're good enough!

The main concern I have here is more of a semi-illogical "feeling" problem. Altering a game to make it better might REALLY make it better, but you're not really going to have that full undamaged appreciation you had for the work by the devs before it was altered, because it's not completely the same work made the the devs anymore. It has some stuff which was alien to the original ORIGINAL product. You might like the work better quality wise, but you won't have that exact same appreciation you had for the developers. That level of appreciation will only go as far as the original work took them.

It's...kind of a complicated feeling, and I hope you can get my meaning.

Oh sure! Yup! Smile

I didn't know you were referring to that. Of course, the original is going to hold some sort of emotional attachment, it's going to be nostalgic! I just thought you meant that it was going to never be amazing or look like a lot of hardwork was put into it.