Who Also Does this...?

[Carrna]

I've never done that and I won't. Just because I could do something doesn't make me want to do it. I've never even killed any spiders or dogs in Penumbra.

Many times I've discussed with people about the monsters of Amnesia and Penumbra and almost every time it has ended in them rolling their eyes for me because I find the infected more scary than Amnesia monsters because they don't despawn. I don't care if they're slower or don't have as much blood on them; it's the tension because they're always there and they won't go away. And no, I won't kill the infected either although it's possible and few people have even been trying to convince me to do it. I mean, why to ruin the good feeling of horror? I know that if I kill them once, I'll do it again.

It's the same in Amnesia. Of course I could just let the monsters to hug me to death for making them to go away, but it'd become a habit that'd ruin everything. I'll rather pretend it's not possible.

The possibility to kill enemies or make them disappear makes the game a lot less scary. In Dead Space for example I had the tense feeling only at the beginning of the game when I hadn't killed anything. But right after the first kill the feeling was gone and I lost my interest. It was just running, killing, running, killing, running, bleh.

I mean, the stores are already full of "horror" games where you can blast your enemies to pieces. I hope there's not going to be any weapons in Frictional's games. And if there was they could be similar like in Overture and rather even more difficult to use. So, if someone wants to play a rambo they would end up ripping their hair off and throwing their screen out of window. : D

[Cranky Old Man]

(04-15-2012 05:52 PM)spukrian Wrote:  

(04-09-2012 01:42 AM)spukrian Wrote:  I haven't done this but I'm gonna try it next time I play through Amnesia.

I'm playing through Amnesia this way now and so far it doesn't really work.

Spoiler below!

In the early game the monster doesn't disappear after it killed you OR it does disappear but reappears as soon as you pass over the trigger again. So basically it is less time consuming to just run, hide and avoid the monster untill it leaves.

Though it seems like it's working for most but not all encounters in the prisons.

(04-09-2012 01:42 AM)spukrian Wrote:  If it's a design error or player error... well, I'll save that discussion for another day.

Let me get back to this point. The first few times I play the game I play the way the designers intended. this goes for both Amnesia and Penumbra. It also goes for other games of a similar type (e.g. System Shock 2). However, when I've played the game a few times, I'd like to experiment. Can I play this game a different way? How much can I break the "rules" the designers have put in place? How much freedom do I really have?

To take System Shock 2 as an example. It has some RPG mechanics, mainly statistics which you choose how to improve during the game. Now, for Normal difficulty at least, the "best" character to play the game with would be an "all-round" character, i.e. knows some guns, knows some hacking/tech and knows a few psionics. However, the beauty of the game is that you can play it and finish it with a character who specializes in one field. Sure, it is going to be much more difficult than usual, but by now you have played the game so many times you know just about everything there is to know about the game and you appreciate the challenge.

Another example to look at are the Thief games. You can play them in almost anyway you want. Personally I prefer to play on the hardest difficulty and knocking out every guard with a blackjack. Others prefer "ghosting", where they don't use violence and finish levels without being seen or heard by anyone. If you really want to, there's nothing stopping you from setting the difficulty to the easiest setting and playing as an assassin, killing everyone that crosses your path! However what I enjoyed the most is using the game mechanics (jumping, grabbing ledges, rope arrows and stacking crates) to reach places the designers didn't intend you to find, that's definitely "breaking the rules" that the designers put in place!

What about Penumbra then? Well, if you killed all the dogs in Overture, try to get through the game by sneaking past them. And vice versa, if you usually avoid them altogether, then maybe you should try confronting them this time. And there's more, you could try to find as many alternate solutions to puzzles as possible (granted, not that many but they are still there).

This is where Amnesia isn't as good as Penumbra IMHO. There is just one effective way of dealing with enemies (running and hiding) and most, if not all, puzzles don't have any alternate solutions. However there is one new way I have found of playing the game: try getting through the game without ever using the lantern or any tinderboxes for that matter (maybe someone else has tried this?). It actually made the game less scary.

Now, maybe I should bring up some contrary examples of games where it is difficult or impossible to "break the rules", but that will have to wait for a different post. To conclude, yes, at first you should play the game as intended, but later on you should be able to play the game any way you want!

It's not about playing it in a different way. What you just mentioned, players do to play it in a more interesting and often more challenging way. Running into monsters is what less gifted people (be they children or otherwise) who cannot play the game do because they can't play the game the first time around. It's not interesting or challenging. It's breaking gameplay in order to eliminate the primary game mechanic. It's cheating. Today people love to make excuses for everything no matter how poor, and it's suckers like you who let them.

[Kreekakon]

I have to agree with both spukrian, and Cranky here, though I lean more towards Cranky. It's true that a lot of game have many different ways to play, and its fun to try out different ways. In Amnesia you can do this too, like say what spukrian said: Playing without lantern, and such.

However, I think the "way" of getting past enemies by letting them kill you so they despawn really is as Cranky says, killing the whole concept behind the game. Unlike other ways of play, this one actually IMHO ruins the actual intended meaning of Amnesia. It doesn't offer a new world of possibility that usually comes with different play styles, at least not in a good way.

[spukrian]

(04-15-2012 06:55 PM)Cranky Old Man Wrote:  It's not about playing it in a different way. What you just mentioned, players do to play it in a more interesting and often more challenging way. Running into monsters is what less gifted people (be they children or otherwise) who cannot play the game do because they can't play the game the first time around.

Who does that on their first time? Who would get that idea? I mean, in order to run face on into the monster means that you aren't scared enough, and in that case what is the point of hiding, because you're not scared.

I was too scared to even think about doing something like this my first time through... and my second time through, aswell. And probably the third time too.

Quote:It's not interesting or challenging. It's breaking gameplay in order to eliminate the primary game mechanic. It's cheating.

I don't agree. I don't think it is cheating. They are just doing something that's well within the limits of the game.

Quote:Today people love to make excuses for everything no matter how poor, and it's suckers like you who let them.

Please refrain from personal attacks. Just having a different opinion doesn't make me a "sucker". Do you feel offended when they don't play the game the way you think they should?

[XxRoCkBaNdMaNxX]

Okay, I obviously read the OP wrong. I don't run at the monster for it to kill me and to despawn the monster, I just do it because I detest hiding in a corner waiting for it to disappear (now, if I'm on lower health, I'll hide, but otherwise, I run at it). I don't purposely kill myself, I just make the monster aware of me, then I run like hell. To me, the chases are the scariest parts of the game because you are constantly hoping that the monster doesn't slash you. Hiding from the monster removes that fear and horror, so I don't do it.


EDIT: Yeah. Re-reading the OP, I really made a mistake in my post. I just thought he meant running at the monster, making it aware of you, so you can run like hell away from it. MY MISTAKE!

[Cranky Old Man]

(04-15-2012 08:09 PM)spukrian Wrote:  

(04-15-2012 06:55 PM)Cranky Old Man Wrote:  It's not about playing it in a different way. What you just mentioned, players do to play it in a more interesting and often more challenging way. Running into monsters is what less gifted people (be they children or otherwise) who cannot play the game do because they can't play the game the first time around.

Who does that on their first time? Who would get that idea? I mean, in order to run face on into the monster means that you aren't scared enough, and in that case what is the point of hiding, because you're not scared.

I was too scared to even think about doing something like this my first time through... and my second time through, aswell. And probably the third time too.

Quote:It's not interesting or challenging. It's breaking gameplay in order to eliminate the primary game mechanic. It's cheating.

I don't agree. I don't think it is cheating. They are just doing something that's well within the limits of the game.

Quote:Today people love to make excuses for everything no matter how poor, and it's suckers like you who let them.

Please refrain from personal attacks. Just having a different opinion doesn't make me a "sucker". Do you feel offended when they don't play the game the way you think they should?

Okay, if you somehow find it challenging for you to commit suicide in Amnesia, then fine, it's a challenge. Kids are doing this to cheat because they're too scared otherwise, but if you find it to be a bigger challenge, then fine.

[spukrian]

(04-15-2012 09:45 PM)Cranky Old Man Wrote:  Okay, if you somehow find it challenging for you to commit suicide in Amnesia, then fine, it's a challenge. Kids are doing this to cheat because they're too scared otherwise, but if you find it to be a bigger challenge, then fine.

I'm just trying this out as an experiment. And as I said in my earlier, it doesn't work, most times the monster doesn't go away after killing Daniel, so running into the monster's arms just makes him stay around longer. So, while not more challenging per se, it's more tedious.

With that said, I don't really follow your logic... As I see it, if they are able to defy their fear by running into the monster instead of away from it, then from my point of view, they are not scared enough. Why would they then be more scared if they hide?

Eh, whatever...

[Kreekakon]

(04-15-2012 10:57 PM)spukrian Wrote:  With that said, I don't really follow your logic... As I see it, if they are able to defy their fear by running into the monster instead of away from it, then from my point of view, they are not scared enough. Why would they then be more scared if they hide?

Eh, whatever...

It's because in Amnesia, you're supposed to be put into the shoes of Daniel. What would YOU do if you were Daniel in the case that he met a monster? I'd suppose that he would hide. Imagining yourself in Daniel's shoes, and doing what he would offers more immersion in the game, and ultimately grants more tension, because you are thinking like Daniel. Running into monsters will break that feeling, and immersion, reverting the player back to the full consciousness that they are nothing, but a person playing a video game, and causing much less emotion from playing the game.

[spukrian]

(04-16-2012 04:21 AM)Kreekakon Wrote:  It's because in Amnesia, you're supposed to be put into the shoes of Daniel. What would YOU do if you were Daniel in the case that he met a monster? I'd suppose that he would hide. Imagining yourself in Daniel's shoes, and doing what he would offers more immersion in the game, and ultimately grants more tension, because you are thinking like Daniel. Running into monsters will break that feeling, and immersion, reverting the player back to the full consciousness that they are nothing, but a person playing a video game, and causing much less emotion from playing the game.

I know about immersion. I understand how important immersion is to Amnesia's gameplay. But you seem to miss my point.

Kreekakon, you started this thread. Did you run straight into the monsters the first time you played the game?

What I'm trying to get across is this:
The chance of someone randomly discovering that some of the monsters despawn after death and then tries to systematically do that with every monster on his/her first time playing through the game is zero. It doesn't happen.

Now, if someone (like me) has played through the game many times and just isn't as scared as he/she was the first time any longer (again like me, I assume many are like me in that respect), decided to try this strategy, then breaking immersion is a foregone conclusion.

Now, what I don't get is why it is so bad for someone to try to play the game in a new way? Even if it breaks immersion?

[Kreekakon]

(04-17-2012 10:13 AM)spukrian Wrote:  I know about immersion. I understand how important immersion is to Amnesia's gameplay. But you seem to miss my point.

Kreekakon, you started this thread. Did you run straight into the monsters the first time you played the game?

What I'm trying to get across is this:
The chance of someone randomly discovering that some of the monsters despawn after death and then tries to systematically do that with every monster on his/her first time playing through the game is zero. It doesn't happen.

Now, if someone (like me) has played through the game many times and just isn't as scared as he/she was the first time any longer (again like me, I assume many are like me in that respect), decided to try this strategy, then breaking immersion is a foregone conclusion.

Now, what I don't get is why it is so bad for someone to try to play the game in a new way? Even if it breaks immersion?

Well, if you put it that way, you're knowingly putting aside immersion entirely, and just seeing how the game can work on a technical scale.

In this case, I wouldn't call it a bad thing anymore, as you're basically not intending to play a immersive game, you're just testing out how it can work in different aspects even if it destroys the story, and immersion of the game.

Just so you know, I'm not being sarcastic. I'm being perfectly honest right now. In the way you put it it's just fine.