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Goals and Storytelling
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Thomas Offline
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Post: #1
Goals and Storytelling

Some discussions on designing moment-to-moment goals in games with story:
http://frictionalgames.blogspot.se/2013/...lling.html
(This post was last modified: 01-21-2013 02:35 PM by Thomas.)
01-21-2013 02:35 PM
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plutomaniac Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Goals and Storytelling

Great, I was waiting for a new blog. The last one made me play so many good games (The Walking Dead, Fahrenheit, Heavy Rain -> Youtube, Gravity Bone, Thirty Flights of Loving, Energetic (no ending -> AAAAA) etc...) and for that thank you! Smile I'm currently playing To the Moon and then Fiend v1.01. Also, The Longest Journey which is from 99 is said to be very good, I don't know if you have played it.

Thomas, will the GDC speech that you gave back in August be free at some point?

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(This post was last modified: 01-21-2013 05:05 PM by plutomaniac.)
01-21-2013 03:46 PM
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Gunslingerjh Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Goals and Storytelling

(01-21-2013 03:46 PM)plutomaniac Wrote:  Great, I was waiting for a new blog. The last one made me play so many good games (The Walking Dead, Fahrenheit, Heavy Rain -> Youtube, Gravity Bone, Thirty Flights of Loving, Energetic (no ending -> AAAAA) etc...) and for that thank you! Smile I'm currently playing To the Moon and then Fiend v1.01. Also, The Longest Journey which is from 99 must be very good, I don't know if you have played it.

Thomas, will the GDC speech that you gave back in August be free at some point?

I did the same thing, but I couldn't install fahrenheit on my PC. Too bad, it seemed really good!

You're going to love To The Moon! I know I surely do! Never expected it from a game with these kind of graphics, but I was blown away by the storytelling and the soundtrack!

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01-21-2013 04:40 PM
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plutomaniac Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Goals and Storytelling

Off Topic: Fahreheit refuses to install to anything above XP (Vista,7,8) so you need a fix that is around the internet that disables the XP system check at the .msi setup file.

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(This post was last modified: 01-21-2013 05:04 PM by plutomaniac.)
01-21-2013 05:04 PM
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Thomas Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Goals and Storytelling

Quote:Thomas, will the GDC speech that you gave back in August be free at some point?

Does not seem like it I am afraid.

Quote:The last one made me play so many good games

Great to hear! Make sure to check ImmorTall and One Chance discussed in this one! Smile
01-21-2013 10:47 PM
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Nyarlathotep Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Goals and Storytelling

Quote:Does not seem like it I am afraid.

Bummer. I was interested in watching that, too.


Also. This may be off topic, but I always enjoy reading your posts about game narratives. Especially the one you did on The Walking Dead. So I was curious if you happened to play or are familiar with last year's Spec Ops: The Line.


Not sure why but it's a game I'd really be interested in hearing your opinion of. It's a deconstruction of modern military shooters with some truly great storytelling.
(This post was last modified: 01-21-2013 11:02 PM by Nyarlathotep.)
01-21-2013 11:01 PM
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plutomaniac Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Goals and Storytelling

(01-21-2013 10:47 PM)Thomas Wrote:  Great to hear! Make sure to check ImmorTall and One Chance discussed in this one! Smile

Yes I played ImmorTall and Everyday the Same Dream today, I really liked them. All these small games are sad! I have played plenty of the ones that you have suggested over the years like The Passage (some time ago). Everyday the Same Dream really makes you feel the repetition of someones day and how little things that cannot easily be noticed can change it:

Spoiler below!
Have you checked every area? There are actually another 5 or so that cannot easily be found including a cow, a field I think and some more.
I will also check out One Chance when I have the time.

(01-21-2013 10:47 PM)Thomas Wrote:  Does not seem like it I am afraid.

That's sad but understandable. Only the presentation pdf is available, no sound and video. I did watch the presentation pdf though and the only thing that I was curious about what you said in under Repetition: a picture of Super Meat Boy. I actually started playing it like two weeks ago. Although I have seen Indie The Movie and really felt for the devs I can't say that I liked SMB much. It indeed felt repetitive after some point and was also very hard at some points making me play a level like 20 times before giving up. I know that levels can be skipped but in the end it made me tired and thus I uninstalled it. My point is, that if you meant the game is repetitive I agree.

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(This post was last modified: 01-21-2013 11:25 PM by plutomaniac.)
01-21-2013 11:14 PM
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the dark side Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Goals and Storytelling

Sorry if i am overstepping any lines here, but i have GOT to say this.

Now, normally i am very supportive of Frictional, because they actually have the cajones to make something that isn't yet another open world illegal street racing game or modern military shooter, but, i have got to disagree with this blog at a fundamental level, perhaps its my age and my inner NES player is revolting again, but, i am afraid that storyline, just, isnt really all that important, do not get me wrong, it IS important, i like a game to tell me a really good story, i like a reason for WHY i am doing things, otherwise the game is just....Mindless, and thats something i really cannot stand, but it must, never, NEVER take precendence over the gameplay, in my opinion if all you want to do is tell a story, and are willing to make the game so easy and so...well, challengless, to ensure everyone can experience it... then perhaps you should consider, and No offence intended at all here, writing a Novel Instead.

Seriously, In My Personal, NES eductated Mindset, a game without challenge, is NOT a game, (hence my hatred of modern casual games, no challenge, no game). ive always stated that, without great gameplay, the games story, even if its the best story ever made, is worth diddly squat. this blog espouses a view to the opposite, that storyline is all important and gameplay is little more than an outdated hindrance to telling a story. That just doesnt sit well with me. I think its why i found Metal Gear Solid 2 and 4 to be very weak compared to MGS1 and 3, both games told a LOT of Story, yes, but they balance it out by having a lot of really great gameplay as well, were as 2 and 4 often let gameplay fall to detriment in exchange for story, especially 4 (in the 5 hour praque level, id say a good 3 hours of it is cutscene, 2 of them are ONE SOLID Cutscene.) wich meant that they came across to me as Interactive movies, again, not a genre i have a lot of appreciation for.

so sorry, got to disagree on this blog, they are called Games, not movies, not novels, and games need Gameplay above all other things in my opinion. my personal take on game development is "core gameplay mechanics" first, "storyline" second, "gimmicks" third, multiplayer gets laughed out of the offfice. also, "violence" isnt there as a core mechnic because they cant come up with a better one, its there because, if its done WELL (PD64 as an example for this post as i was playing it this morning, my 25th run through) it is hugely entertaining. its when its not done well, and is just an excuse to make things go kabooom (cough, any modern military shooter cough) that it becomes a hindrance. Good gameplay is not a Hindrance to a story, it is BAD gameplay that is a hindrance to a story.

Having a Great Story alone will not be enough to make me play the game more than once (MGS4). were as a game with great gameplay will keep me coming back time and time again even if the story is absolute Hokum (PD64, alien worlds my foot!), however, if the gameplay is bad, i wont come back no matter what the story is, sometimes, i wont even bother to finish the game.

so sorry, putting story before gameplay is just wrong to me i am afraid, i normally agree with you Thomas, but, not this time.

Storyline is Very Important, as it shows you, if written well, WHY you are, say, blowing up half of russia and why russia blew new york of the face of the map, But Gameplay is More Important, because, if the game isnt fun, challenging, and interesting... well, whats the point in playing it?

TDS.
(This post was last modified: 01-27-2013 09:15 PM by the dark side.)
01-27-2013 08:22 PM
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Wooderson Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Goals and Storytelling

(01-27-2013 08:22 PM)the dark side Wrote:  Sorry if i am overstepping any lines here, but i have GOT to say this.


Gameplay,Is, Everything.

TDS.

No. Just no.

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01-27-2013 08:35 PM
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the dark side Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Goals and Storytelling

and why, praytell do you disagree? "no, just no" just doesnt cut it i am afraid. if you are going to disagree with my statements, i would like to know Why you disagree, i told Thomas why, for the first time ever, i disagree with his.. so why cant you tell me why you disagree with my statements?. when i take the time to give an argument in favour of gameplay over story to counter an argument for Storyline over Gameplay, i do appreciate people taking the time to dissect the post and post counter arguments as i did with Thomas's Original Blog, bot just post "no, just no" as if this was twitter, i KNOW for a fact you are better than that lucke, its below you mate! and hopefully also below everyone else on these here forums.
(This post was last modified: 01-27-2013 09:08 PM by the dark side.)
01-27-2013 08:42 PM
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