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Interaction
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Lince Offline
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Post: #1
Interaction

I don't know if it's possible but… is there any way to make interaction with game objects less stressful to the hand? The fact that I have to hold the mouse button to pick up items makes the experience really frustrating and annoying at times.

I know it's more "realistic" that way, but sometimes it's better to leave realism a bit on the side if the mechanic involved turns the game into a tiresome task for some people. So i think it would be nicer to everyone's hands if you could just click once to pick up an object.

Another suggestion kind of related to this is… hands. I want to see my hands! It would be really immersive if when I pick up a rock, I see my hands holding it instead of the item hovering at a long distance as if it was a really disgusting rock. When I hold a computer card I carry it close to me, and not with arms extended hitting everything in my path (and dropping it because I hit the door's frame).

The hover method is fun for showing the physics engine, but I want to be there, I want to see my hands and legs, and feel like I'm really there pushing, holding, or whatever.

I know the "hands / feet showing" would be kind of far fetched for Penumbra I know, but the hold-toggle option at least would be a godsend.

Another problem with the world interaction is when I've got to turn a wheel or something like that. Sometimes I don't have the time to position myself straight, and trying to turn something from an angle is really frustrating, never getting the right "shape" to draw with my mouse button held. I think it would be better to have the option to "hold" onto the wheel for example, and move the mouse as if I were looking at the item from the front.

Example: Let's pull a lever. I click the lever and "hold" onto it. Then I move the mouse straight down and the game moves the lever down regardless of my angle. Same with a wheel, I would click to hold, and then "draw" a straight circle even if I'm activating the wheel from the side.

These two options would help a lot in easing the stress on the mouse hand, and the frustration of holding an item and painfully trying to turn the camera with the mouse button held only to see the item falling because you slipped a bit your finger on the button Sad

The hands showing would be the icing of the cake!

What do you think?

Smile
08-03-2008 07:19 PM
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Sepai Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Interaction

well here is my quick thoughts......

As for single click pick up I guess could of been an option

As for the hand and feet showing i seen feet in games looks good but thats just it once you got over the fact you have feet you never look down unless you have to.
As for the hands well thats i a very tricky thing to do for a very small cosmetic gain but i have yet to see a game that can pick up an object and hold it on the fly with out have to have it already made up with object in the hand (like most FPS a gun with a hand made attached to give the illusion the you are holding it.)

Turning the wheel I'm not too sure on that one
08-04-2008 03:04 AM
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Lince Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Interaction

I think that any implementation that can make the character "feel" like it's there instead of being a hovering psychic entity is not small. It's in the same level as ambient sounds and music. Breathing sounds when the character is stressed, or visual distortion, or advanced lights and shadows, bump maps, etc. In the end, it's those "cosmetic" features what makes a game immersive. They could have made the flashlight invisible, but when it shows on screen it serves as a way to enhance the feeling that you're actually playing someone holding a flashlight (instead of that… "psychic entity" projecting a light somehow).

It can be a way to test the physics engine, also. Instead of creating a model of every item being held, maybe they could give every item some "holding points" that the hands would use to attach the item to themselves.

I don't really know, it's just wishful thinking Smile

Anyway, click-to-hold, I'm hoping that's easier to implement!
08-04-2008 11:57 AM
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Luis Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Interaction

Sepai Wrote:...i have yet to see a game that can pick up an object and hold it on the fly with out have to have it already made up with object in the hand (like most FPS a gun with a hand made attached to give the illusion the you are holding it.)

Trespasser did just that, but sometimes it felt really awkward. Check this vid to see what I mean.

EOF
08-04-2008 05:36 PM
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Lince Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Interaction

I see… that's one twitchy arm!

I'm sure there are ways to make something like that but witout all the strange arm work. I mean, I don't really need to see my arm completely extended to pick up and activate items! Just… click and the arm extends and picks something up (in a realistic way, may need both hands for big objects) without much flailing.

Did anyone play Call of Cthulhu: Dark Corners of the Earth? I loved that game, because part of the wonderful atmosphere was that it actually showed the character hands (not always, unfortunately). For example, when opening a safe you could see the protagonist's hands turning the wheel, and sometimes in scripted cinematics he would try to cover his face with his hands.

But anyway, I only brought this up for picking up items because it was really annoying when I picked up something that I would hold close to me in real life, and instead it was hovering kind of far from me, hitting every obstacle and falling (or I tried to turn the camera quickly when holding it and it kind of fell along the way).

Another thing I didn't like was that sometimes, a barrel would fall sideways, and I had to hit it around the place so that I could put it vertical. Maybe if there was a way to more or less "fix" the item position when held (I mean, you'd be holding it tight), and then rotate it in a more controlled fashion (over each axis, for example). That way I could pick up a barrel and put it vertical without the need to bump it all over the place Wink

Don't get me wrong, I liked the game a lot, and all these are only ideas that came to my mind when playing.

That, and I would have loved to see Phillip's fists clenched in anger when Clarence did one of his tricks Big Grin

Good game Smile
08-05-2008 02:33 AM
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Thaliur Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Interaction

Lince Wrote:Another thing I didn't like was that sometimes, a barrel would fall sideways, and I had to hit it around the place so that I could put it vertical. Maybe if there was a way to more or less "fix" the item position when held (I mean, you'd be holding it tight), and then rotate it in a more controlled fashion (over each axis, for example). That way I could pick up a barrel and put it vertical without the need to bump it all over the place Wink
I don'T think I can help you with most of your other suggestions (though I see your point and agree on most parts. Seeing parts of Philip during the game would be a nice touch, at least a shadow.), but if I understood you correctly on this one, you can do it in Black Plague by holding down the C button on your keyboard while holding an object. I'm not sure if it was the C button. It was explained in the turorial, which I can't replay because I lent the game to my brother to give him back his trust in horror games after he played FEAR.

Megatron - proving that guns DO kill people since 1984
(This post was last modified: 08-05-2008 05:55 AM by klutzon.)
08-05-2008 05:54 AM
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eliasfrost Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Interaction

I remember Dark Messiah did something similar to this. But still he held the item right in front of him like no one in real life would do, with stretched out arms.

[Image: indiedb_88x31.png]
08-05-2008 10:59 AM
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Paulaner Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Interaction

In my opinion the question is: do it right or not at all. Seeing an arm or a hand waving around in an unrealistic way will totally break my game immersion. Shooters, where only guns are involved, can do the trick without too much trouble. But Penumbra is an adventure and objects manipulation is crucial, so a nice moving hand could be very difficult to implement.
08-05-2008 11:31 AM
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Thomas Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Interaction

Regarding Call of Cthulhu and visible hands. There is a lil hack for that game that lets one (among other things) make the hand visible and it works quite nicely.

As with a 3d arm in penumbra it would look really awkward since the player, for gameplay purposes, can pick up things from quite a distance and that would require a fantastic four like power from Philip Wink
08-05-2008 12:38 PM
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eliasfrost Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Interaction

Right you are. But decreasing the reach distance? Would that make any effect? Or maybe have different reach distances for different objects. Like a barrel, would have a short distance, and a cup or a can have a longer distance. But that is too late now though.Wink

[Image: indiedb_88x31.png]
08-05-2008 03:00 PM
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