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Would AAMFP be better if it would NOT be considered a game, like Dear Esther?
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Mr. 3vil Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Would AAMFP be better if it would NOT be considered a game, like Dear Esther?

(09-14-2013 07:26 AM)Quizerno Wrote:  Korsakovia (99% of it at least)

I thought Korsakovia was their scariest game created and hardly a walking simulator. It even had platforming elements so complicated that one slip could cause the player to die or start over again. In particular climbing that mountain of mess or using the crowbar to figure out that you needed to break the blocked passages while collectors are zoning behind you. It was a very good mod until the source engine updated and broke most mods.

And Conscientious Objector was quite an interesting experience. The person yelling across clearly wants you dead because you're a pacifist and the gun shooting rubber bullets. It reminds me of how Portal sets up Glados and runs tests only to try and kill you in the end, except in this mod the guy succeeds because you're a lab rat.

What I've learned from Conscientious Objector is that weapons don't actually reduce scare factor if they're nerfed so much that they only slow monsters. The monsters jumping around the dark and the rubber bullets being useless made me feel helpless.

I wouldn't count TheChineseRoom out yet, they've provided some very interesting ways to deliver their games. I think the point of playing anything they make is to always experience something new, they won't be playing their Dear Esther card and making everything like it. They're trying to explore new ground after all.
(This post was last modified: 09-14-2013 12:03 PM by Mr. 3vil.)
09-14-2013 11:56 AM
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zico Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Would AAMFP be better if it would NOT be considered a game, like Dear Esther?

Would I think it would be better if it wasn't considered a game? No.

Because it all depends on the definition.

I am tempted to say that if holing a lantern can be compared to holding a gun, it's as much of a game as 90% of the FPS games on the market. But I won't say that cause it way too trivial.

It depends on the definition of the word game.

Pong was all about moving a paddle. Space invaders was about moving a ship and pushing a button. So AMFP has most definitely a more sophisticated Gameplay. But also this is way too trivial. It's just not easy to compare these things in the right mind.

Games evolve. This evolution usually follows rules. Getting more complex, advanced and such. But I personally have to consider we deal with an Indie game. These games evolve differently since they break rules established by the big titles. Those titles which can only go in one direction to NEVER engage the situation where their customers getting something else they expect. This is why I cherish Indie games - for a different set of reasons as other titles out there.

They go in other directions, grow a different branch on the evolution-tree. And what's even more interesting is - like AMFP showed: They aren't afraid to break their own rules. And it's interesting and exciting to observe where those games go even tho it comes with the danger of getting something you may not like. I still haven't played enough of AMFP to KNOW if I will like it in general or how I'll like it in relation to TDD.

What I do like is the heavy focus on storytelling. I had a bad habit choosing games in the past where things like story and narration were toned down immensely as a compromise to satisfy elements like Coop gameplay or Multiplayer in general. Three letters and a number: F3AR.
I didn't like that. My expectations shaped by the experience with the predecessors made me disappointed. Sounds familiar?

But coming back to the topic, I DO like that AMFP focuses on storytelling so much. Everything else is up to if this new set of rules will be able to leave me satisfied in the end. I'm eager to find out. But going down that road is exciting nonetheless - to see WHAT CR did. And I am happy there are guys exploring these new possibilities.

And now to shortly touch the topic of "Is it Amnesia or not?":
I think there are more things connecting AMFP to TDD than there is distance between them. I guess if it would not be called "Amnesia" the arguments would rather be like: "This is a toned down Amnesia ripoff." instead of "This is a toned down Amnesia."
So personally I am rather happy this game was placed in the same universe.
09-14-2013 12:49 PM
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SurvivalHorror Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Would AAMFP be better if it would NOT be considered a game, like Dear Esther?

If the Chineseroom wants to tell stories, they should not make games because they don't know what makes games fun.
[/quote]

Its fine if they make games imo, but what they shouldnt be doing is hitching a ride on the name of Amnesia and using deceptive marketing techniques in order to sell. They should show their game for what it really is, an interactive novel. If its successful fine, but don't tarnish the great work by frictional in pushing the limits of the horror genre by hitching a free ride then coming up with something we never intended to buy. I guess the old saying holds true in this case. If you want something done, do it yourself.

To answer the thread's question, I don't feel terminology would affect the actual reaction of players to the game, but it would have attracted the correct and appropriate, albeit smaller audience towards the game, those interested in an interactive horror novel. What they did wrong was to try to market themselves in a deceptive way.
09-14-2013 04:59 PM
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Dash213 Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Would AAMFP be better if it would NOT be considered a game, like Dear Esther?

you know what? if it makes you feel any better then fine, it's not a game. it's a walking simulator at best. all you do is getting from point A to B and is nothing more then a book and the W button. i like this thing for what it is, regardless of what category or definition it's thrown into, i don't care if its a game or not, it's one of the best not a game in the gaming industry for me.
(This post was last modified: 09-14-2013 05:59 PM by Dash213.)
09-14-2013 05:59 PM
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Quizerno Offline
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Post: #15
RE: Would AAMFP be better if it would NOT be considered a game, like Dear Esther?

(09-14-2013 11:56 AM)Mr. 3vil Wrote:  I thought Korsakovia was their scariest game created and hardly a walking simulator. It even had platforming elements so complicated that one slip could cause the player to die or start over again. In particular climbing that mountain of mess or using the crowbar to figure out that you needed to break the blocked passages while collectors are zoning behind you. It was a very good mod until the source engine updated and broke most mods.

Yes, it has 2 things that separate it from walking simulator, platforming (which is horrible in the source engine) and a puzzle of trapping enemies which involves using crowbar on wood.


(09-14-2013 11:56 AM)Mr. 3vil Wrote:  And Conscientious Objector was quite an interesting experience. The person yelling across clearly wants you dead because you're a pacifist and the gun shooting rubber bullets. It reminds me of how Portal sets up Glados and runs tests only to try and kill you in the end, except in this mod the guy succeeds because you're a lab rat.

I fail to see how it was interesting. The mod forces you to be a pacifist as you run around with a guy berating you.

(09-14-2013 11:56 AM)Mr. 3vil Wrote:  What I've learned from Conscientious Objector is that weapons don't actually reduce scare factor if they're nerfed so much that they only slow monsters. The monsters jumping around the dark and the rubber bullets being useless made me feel helpless.



(09-14-2013 11:56 AM)Mr. 3vil Wrote:  I wouldn't count TheChineseRoom out yet, they've provided some very interesting ways to deliver their games. I think the point of playing anything they make is to always experience something new, they won't be playing their Dear Esther card and making everything like it. They're trying to explore new ground after all.

They just did.

AMFP is more like Dear Esther than Amnesia.

They've done their "experiment" over four times now, they've done nothing new. They keep trying to make interactive stories with removed interactivity,

They have not explored any new ground, they have been retreading the same ground. They are a one-trick pony, and their trick is not very good.
09-14-2013 10:20 PM
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Diango12 Offline
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Post: #16
RE: Would AAMFP be better if it would NOT be considered a game, like Dear Esther?

If they actually could make interesting interactive audio books, then maybe. But the studio's writers don't really show any good ability to write engaging content. They take a simple-minded approach to ambiguity; remove all instances of exposition. It's really not that simple, The Last of Us writing is heavy on explicit exposition ( except for the ending ), yet it manages just well. Shadow of the Colossus removes a lot of explicit narrative, but accomplishes its goal by having less fat in its story. SOTC is a good example of doing more with less. A:amfp is just the result of upstart, pretentious game devs in todays indie market.
(This post was last modified: 09-14-2013 11:27 PM by Diango12.)
09-14-2013 11:24 PM
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V10lator Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Would AAMFP be better if it would NOT be considered a game, like Dear Esther?

Sorry for being a bit off-topic, but this has to be written:

(09-13-2013 10:21 PM)bluel0bster Wrote:  
Spoiler below!

Video Game (noun):
1. Any of various games played using a microcomputer with a keyboard and often joysticks to manipulate changes or respond to the action or questions on the screen. (www.dictionary.com)
2. A video game is an electronic game that involves human interaction with a user interface to generate visual feedback on a video device. (www.wikipedia.org )
3. A game in which you press buttons to control and move images on a screen (Oxford online dictionary)
4. An electronic game in which players control images on a television or computer screen (Merriam-Webster )
5. A game in which the player controls moving pictures on a television screen by pressing buttons or moving a short handle Cambridge Online Dictionary

Let's use that for Microsoft Windows:

1) Yes, we use a keyboard to manipulate changes or respond to the action or questions on the screen.
2) Yes, we generate visual feedback with a user interface.
3) Yes, we press buttons to control and move images on a screen.
4) and 5) yes, we control images on a television or computer screen.

So Windows is a game, too!
09-15-2013 01:39 AM
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bluel0bster Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Would AAMFP be better if it would NOT be considered a game, like Dear Esther?

(09-15-2013 01:39 AM)V10lator Wrote:  Sorry for being a bit off-topic, but this has to be written:

(09-13-2013 10:21 PM)bluel0bster Wrote:  
Spoiler below!

Video Game (noun):
1. Any of various games played using a microcomputer with a keyboard and often joysticks to manipulate changes or respond to the action or questions on the screen. (www.dictionary.com)
2. A video game is an electronic game that involves human interaction with a user interface to generate visual feedback on a video device. (www.wikipedia.org )
3. A game in which you press buttons to control and move images on a screen (Oxford online dictionary)
4. An electronic game in which players control images on a television or computer screen (Merriam-Webster )
5. A game in which the player controls moving pictures on a television screen by pressing buttons or moving a short handle Cambridge Online Dictionary

Let's use that for Microsoft Windows:

1) Yes, we use a keyboard to manipulate changes or respond to the action or questions on the screen.
2) Yes, we generate visual feedback with a user interface.
3) Yes, we press buttons to control and move images on a screen.
4) and 5) yes, we control images on a television or computer screen.

So Windows is a game, too!

Read those definitions again... see how they all start with the word "game?" Kinda important.

Game: an amusement or pastime; structured playing, usually undertaken for enjoyment.

You'd be hard pressed to define an operating system as an enjoying activity or amusement, without some conceited metaphor.

Nice try.
(This post was last modified: 09-15-2013 02:12 AM by bluel0bster.)
09-15-2013 02:08 AM
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Diango12 Offline
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Post: #19
RE: Would AAMFP be better if it would NOT be considered a game, like Dear Esther?

(09-15-2013 02:08 AM)bluel0bster Wrote:  
(09-15-2013 01:39 AM)V10lator Wrote:  Sorry for being a bit off-topic, but this has to be written:

(09-13-2013 10:21 PM)bluel0bster Wrote:  
Spoiler below!

Video Game (noun):
1. Any of various games played using a microcomputer with a keyboard and often joysticks to manipulate changes or respond to the action or questions on the screen. (www.dictionary.com)
2. A video game is an electronic game that involves human interaction with a user interface to generate visual feedback on a video device. (www.wikipedia.org )
3. A game in which you press buttons to control and move images on a screen (Oxford online dictionary)
4. An electronic game in which players control images on a television or computer screen (Merriam-Webster )
5. A game in which the player controls moving pictures on a television screen by pressing buttons or moving a short handle Cambridge Online Dictionary

Let's use that for Microsoft Windows:

1) Yes, we use a keyboard to manipulate changes or respond to the action or questions on the screen.
2) Yes, we generate visual feedback with a user interface.
3) Yes, we press buttons to control and move images on a screen.
4) and 5) yes, we control images on a television or computer screen.

So Windows is a game, too!

Read those definitions again... see how they all start with the word "game?" Kinda important.

Game: an amusement or pastime; structured playing, usually undertaken for enjoyment.

You'd be hard pressed to define an operating system as an enjoying activity or amusement, without some conceited metaphor.

Nice try.

In that case Ebooks in PDF format are games too. I use input devises to move images and I use special triggers to jump sections and even open pictorial content on some of them. I really enjoy Dune a lot, and seeing as I have the whole collection as pdf I guess I'm playing the series as a game!

The point is you are over simplifying the definition of a form of media that has gained a lot of popularity and therefor has standards established through the precedent of 42 years of gaming history. A:amfp gets to be defined as a game, but I feel just barely so. Dark, interactive visual and audio book is more appropriate.
(This post was last modified: 09-15-2013 03:12 AM by Diango12.)
09-15-2013 03:06 AM
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GregorusPrime Offline
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Post: #20
RE: Would AAMFP be better if it would NOT be considered a game, like Dear Esther?

Right, here's the thing. People are saying that it's not a game because the vast majority of the interactivity has been removed. It's an interactive experience only in the barest sense of the word, in that your ability to interact with the environment is incredibly limited and your ability to actually affect your environment is thus incredibly lacking. I don't think "is it a video game" applies as much as "is it a GOOD video game" does, and I would argue that no, AAMFP is definitely not because it has no challenge, and with no real challenge the tension is diminished, and with the tension diminished I'm not scared at all, I'm just bored as hell an hour into the game and have no desire to continue. There's no mystery because I'm only allowed to interact with objects that advance the plot, a plot that is so far extremely predictable. (The first line in the game is "Daddy please don't kill me." Gee, I wonder what happened to my kids? And it's such a mystery how the guy on the other end of the phone knows everything about me and sounds exactly like I do. I wonder who that could be.)

Oh, and for the record, no, Proteus is not a game. Add a randomized movement algorithm and set up a trigger to launch it after ten minutes of inactivity and it becomes a screensaver.
(This post was last modified: 09-15-2013 08:35 AM by GregorusPrime.)
09-15-2013 08:27 AM
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