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Thoughts on A:AMFP
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nemesis567 Offline
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Post: #1
Thoughts on A:AMFP

This game was magical. I love games with a deeper meaning and emotional attachment and this achieved it in such a recognizable and real way I'd argue it's as powerful a link to that unknown, yet so familiar feeling as "High Hopes" to nostalgia.

The fact that it was far less repetitive and more diverse and original in everything than it's predecessor makes me wonder what game development expertise comes around people's minds to say at some point that the previous game was better. I find it as fascinating as Dear Esther, although better achieved for it's unique "self-enchanting" feel. It's certainly an horror game, but it trades scariness for attachment and that gives it a much more real feeling. Something you can actually connect to as a real being.

I don't think I need to mention the soundtrack, since it's pretty obvious by now that it did it's job quite well.

Also, I believe it's quite pleasurable to see that the ideas of Thomas as seen in his blog have been implemented in a somewhat effective manner in order to increase relevance to storytelling in such way that it feels absolutely natural. The game is as immersive as your imagination and experience allows it to be. You broke the actual system barriers.

I also find it quite intelligent removing the inventory since it was clearly breaking immersion. With the kind of interaction that's built in this engine there is no need for it and freeing the user from an actual Pause-Game interface improved immersion.

The artwork was also amazing and much better in the artist's perspective. I dare say it was beautiful in it's own perverse way.

As for downside I believe the engine in itself could be far more optimized, since it while holding up to itself, clearly gives you development limits that could be fixed by small engine implementations(or huge depending on how versatile your current engine is coded to be). I also disagree with the inability to create custom stories. I'm hoping it can be tweaked to be used in full conversions.

Regards and thank you for an unforgettable experience.

Today I dreamt the life I could live forever. You only know that when you feel it for you know not what you like until you've experienced it.
09-16-2013 05:39 AM
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Cuyir Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Thoughts on A:AMFP

Hopefully their new engine is a bit more powerful. I know they're not a AAA team and developing a game that most people can run isn't smart but it needs to be a bit more powerful.

And not to be an ass, but there's a thread for user reviews, which this qualifies for.
09-16-2013 02:38 PM
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sailornaruto39 Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Thoughts on A:AMFP

I have a problem with a few things you said

"The fact that it was far less repetitive and more diverse and original in everything than it's predecessor"


In what way? They removed all game mechanics and added nothing new. It was literally walking around and collecting notes. The game was very linear. Wouldn't that be more repetitive?


"storytelling in such way that it feels absolutely natural. "
What is natural about purple prose? Even considering the time period. I felt it was too exaggerated and notes often times involved unecessary details.


Daniel was a class man(I presume) And his generation isn't too far off from Mandus no?
"since it was clearly breaking immersion."


So any horror game(or game for that matter) that has a pausing inventory is immersion breaking? Then what about reading notes? Since they do the EXACT same thing. I'm a bit confused at how they broke immersion any way.


Don't take this the wrong way, I'm not critizicng you for liking it, just felt a few things you said seemed off.




MY turn Big Grin


I didn't like the game.


I just don't like this type of game design(if you can even call it a game) it's too focused on story telling and not gameplay. Even with it being a "horror" this kind of Horror doesn't scare me at all.


The story was IMO reminiscent of Edgar Allen Poe type horror, who I do not find scary but artistic, but not scary. I also just don't believe the story was that good in the first place.


I think I understand most of the story, but in the end it was still "meh" to me.
I think associating it with amensia was in poor taste/judgment and many things point to them just trying to get milk from the cash cow that is amnesia. Where they not aware of the expectations?


It almost seems like creative Hi-jacking to take a game that is know for one thing and to turn it into something else that you've done. This would have been better as DLC (like justine which IMO was better) than a sequel, it would've been easier to dismiss.
09-16-2013 11:48 PM
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bluel0bster Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Thoughts on A:AMFP

(09-16-2013 11:48 PM)sailornaruto39 Wrote:  So any horror game(or game for that matter) that has a pausing inventory is immersion breaking? Then what about reading notes? Since they do the EXACT same thing. I'm a bit confused at how they broke immersion any way.

Really now? Think about what the word "immersion" means: a state of being deeply engaged or involved; absorption. "Breaking immersion" refers to breaking this state of engagement, bringing to reality the fact that you are in fact sitting in front of a screen. To avoid this, the solution is to make things in games feel as realistic as possible. That's why sound design and game flow are essential to immersion. An inventory screen breaks immersion because the real-world counterpart is, well, digging into your pockets. Inventory screens are a relatively broken but effective way to translate a real world action onto the screen. The developers themselves talked about inventory and immersion (iirc).

So... what's the real world counterpart to reading notes? Well... reading notes... It's the same thing. So how is that breaking immersion for you, since it pretty much replicates the real world counterpart exactly?

(09-16-2013 11:48 PM)sailornaruto39 Wrote:  This would have been better as DLC (like justine which IMO was better) than a sequel, it would've been easier to dismiss.

If you had followed the development of the game, you'd know that AAMFP was originally a short, experimental game rather than a full fledged sequel, so the DNA of a DLC-like experience are present.

Additionally, had it been a DLC, people would be way more pissed off than they are now, given the removal of mechanics. Could you imagine if "Justine" had taken away the lantern, inventory, etc., etc.? I don't think people would have taken too kindly to that.

For AAMFP, removing mechanics works because it's a separate experience made by different developers with a different focus. The removal of mechanics serves a greater purpose.
(This post was last modified: 09-17-2013 01:05 AM by bluel0bster.)
09-17-2013 01:03 AM
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sailornaruto39 Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Thoughts on A:AMFP

"relatively broken but effective way to translate a real world action onto the screen."


Then how does it break immersion if it is a reflection of real world events? If someone's immersion is honestly broken (while playing a game) then they must have a very easily broken sense of immersion.


If feel that imposes an unusual standard on a game being how most game have inventories.


"So how is that breaking immersion for you"
It really doesn't for me at least, but according to the OP's reasnoing the invetory broke immersion because of how it pauses the game. Considering that there are notes you kinda either have to pause a lot or for a long time.


(09-17-2013 01:03 AM)bluel0bster Wrote:  If you had followed the development of the game
Oops, my bad. Thank you for the correction.
(This post was last modified: 09-17-2013 01:20 AM by sailornaruto39.)
09-17-2013 01:17 AM
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nemesis567 Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Thoughts on A:AMFP

You have interesting points and I understand that they can very easily make sense. Now, for starters, I am not the voice of reason, just one of it's many forms.
I say it was less repetitive because there is a lot more variety and changes both in plot and scenery.
I disagree when you say they added nothing new. First they added a game genre. Then by removing those mechanics they changed the gameplay style to match that genre. I'm sure there are other additions as well I don't have the time to discuss.

The fact the story was so good is because you can somehow identify with it since it can be related to certain real life experiences a good ammount of people have.

As far as I know this is the first Amnesia: A machine for pigs. I'm happy they chose to target a similar audience as Dear Esther. I tend to dislike games that bring nothing new to my knowledge bank. This certainly wasn't one of them.

Creativity in it's many forms is the key to enjoy a game like this.

Today I dreamt the life I could live forever. You only know that when you feel it for you know not what you like until you've experienced it.
09-17-2013 01:23 AM
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sailornaruto39 Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Thoughts on A:AMFP

" more variety and changes both in plot and scenery."

Weird I don't see that, unless by scenery you mean the large outside world/town and the various machine parts?
"First they added a game genre."


I feel that's stretching it. It's not really something I was counting. It's like saying "They added new characters" They are both horror just of different types TDD is supernatural while MFP is psychological.


" style to match that genre."
What genre would this even be? Because the old mechanics could've been completely compatible with this game.


"somehow identify with it since it can be related to certain real life experiences a good amount of people have."


Saving humanity via omnicide?


"I'm happy they chose to target a similar audience as Dear Esther"


I doubt it, if that were they case why be involved with amnesia? That's targeting a much larger audience.


I hope you don't mind me probing your opinions, discussing things like this usually give insight to my own opinions.
09-17-2013 01:42 AM
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nemesis567 Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Thoughts on A:AMFP

I don't mind at all. I actually enjoy it.
IF you play tdd and amfp one after the other you'll notice there isn't much variety in the first's asset's when compared to amfp in which there is no place like the other. I'm also talking about variety in encounters and events. You actually could think you didn't knew what was about to happen. As for tdd, after a few levels the game became just more of the same. Similar map structure and similar monster mechanics

How you define a game genre depends on how much you're willing to generalize. I can't actually find a way to explain this clearly but I think it's noticeable that this game is far different from Amnesia. For example, within survival horror you could find both games, but I can actually connect Slender with the first Amnesia a lot better than with this Amnesia. If those mechanics you're so fond of existed this game would fall into the same place as tdd and well... it would just be another game.

I can't understand what's so good about the inventory system. Maybe you could enlighten me?[/size]

I'm against targeting larger audiences. I believe anything made with that intent is all but somehow empty. I find it extraordinarily rewarding to see that people like The Chinese Room try to touch in the deeper parts of meaning, instead of jjust making a commercial game that could sell a lot more. Similar case is comparing regular disco music with 80's rock such as The Doors.
It's about the content and how much of an impact it can have on yourself if you let it.
If I say Call of Duty is an empty game and you understand why, you actually understood my reasons.

Today I dreamt the life I could live forever. You only know that when you feel it for you know not what you like until you've experienced it.
(This post was last modified: 09-17-2013 01:59 AM by nemesis567.)
09-17-2013 01:59 AM
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sailornaruto39 Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Thoughts on A:AMFP

"to amfp in which there is no place like the other."


That is actually a really good point I hadn't noticed.


"I can't understand what's so good about the inventory system. Maybe you could enlighten me?"


It's not so much that I think it's special or a +, if the gameplay of a game needs u to pick up and carry things it's appropriate. I just never saw it as something immersion breaking. I've always felt, that so long as something is a part of the game (from lack of interactivity, to presence of inventories) it doesn't break immersion for me, because it is a part of the reality of the game.


"I find it extraordinarily rewarding to see that people like The Chinese Room try to touch in the deeper parts of meaning"


That's nice and all, but that intent isn't incompatible with reaching a large audience. If on feels they have something deep and meaning they should share with anyone willing. But I don't feel that's what they wanted to do, it would be bad judgement or dishonesty to attach the label of amnesia and turn around and say "Well it was meant for a smaller audience" If not the latter to would be rather dismissive and kinda a slap to the face saying "NO, this game isn't for you".


"It's about the content and how much of an impact it can have on yourself"


Psychological horrors don't do it for me, it's something I'd rather write than read.


I'm wondering. did you find the game scary? If so why and how?
09-17-2013 02:33 AM
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pagan Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Thoughts on A:AMFP

(09-17-2013 01:03 AM)bluel0bster Wrote:  
(09-16-2013 11:48 PM)sailornaruto39 Wrote:  So any horror game(or game for that matter) that has a pausing inventory is immersion breaking? Then what about reading notes? Since they do the EXACT same thing. I'm a bit confused at how they broke immersion any way.

Really now? Think about what the word "immersion" means: a state of being deeply engaged or involved; absorption. "Breaking immersion" refers to breaking this state of engagement, bringing to reality the fact that you are in fact sitting in front of a screen. To avoid this, the solution is to make things in games feel as realistic as possible. That's why sound design and game flow are essential to immersion. An inventory screen breaks immersion because the real-world counterpart is, well, digging into your pockets. Inventory screens are a relatively broken but effective way to translate a real world action onto the screen. The developers themselves talked about inventory and immersion (iirc).

I understand what they wanted to achieve with removing gameplay, but in my opinion they failed horribly. I felt the first Amnesia was much more immersive, engaging experience because i felt i'm part of it's world. I could interact with it, i could explore it, i could affect to it. In pigs i was just a passive observer with no influence to the world at all. I was severely limited to go in a strict path, and i was allowed to read notes and more or less that's it. The way i could proceed in the path was often very illogical (why would a valve in a machinery room open the bathroom door or move a fence in the garden? In the original Amnesia more or less everything worked in a well thought out and logical manner). I felt these are much more immersion breaking than an inventory. Also, while the puzzles in the original Amnesia were always very easy to solve, they gave the feeling i had to put some effort to proceed further, and made the pacing much better. In pigs that was missing entirely.

Because of the immersion-breaking design decisions, while i appreciated the story, i didn't feel any impact at all. I though it would work much better in a short novel form. The same is true for the horror aspect. After the first half hour i never felt fear or that i was in danger, because i felt as a distant, detached observer.

(09-17-2013 01:03 AM)bluel0bster Wrote:  Additionally, had it been a DLC, people would be way more pissed off than they are now, given the removal of mechanics. Could you imagine if "Justine" had taken away the lantern, inventory, etc., etc.? I don't think people would have taken too kindly to that.

Ehm, Justine didn't have lantern, and the inventory usage was minimal, and nobody complained about them, because the developers still managed to create an engaging gameplay. Chinese Room didn't.
(This post was last modified: 09-17-2013 02:51 AM by pagan.)
09-17-2013 02:36 AM
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