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PiggyPlus Mod Concept - Interactivity, Exploration, Monsters!
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wretch Offline
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Posts: 34
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Post: #31
RE: PiggyPlus Mod Concept - Interactivity, Exploration, Monsters!

(09-17-2013 10:56 AM)NicoNico Wrote:  Hey guys !

Alright, some more thought on your project^^

(09-17-2013 08:07 AM)Ideka Wrote:  
(09-16-2013 09:38 AM)wretch Wrote:  Interactivity: You'll be able to carry a lot more objects, just like good old The Dark Descent!

Last worked on: Not started

Honestly kind of pointless, but OK.
@wretch : as this would probably decrease the game's performances, maybe you should remove some of the objects. For example, there are a lot of bottles in the drawers (I mean... what's up with all these bottles in the drawers ? Every time, I was like "damn, they sure are thursty !" Tongue)
(09-17-2013 08:07 AM)Ideka Wrote:  
(09-16-2013 09:38 AM)wretch Wrote:  Exploration: Most of the locked doors are now unlocked and open for exploration.

Last worked on: Not started

Probably not a good thing. Have you seen youtube gameplays of the game? People get lost enough as it is. Adding a bunch of pointless rooms will only make the game harder, and it will make it easier to get stuck, and thus pulled away from the atmosphere.
Honestly, when I look at most of the Amnesia Let's Plays on YouTube, all I see is someone running everywhere, switching all the switches they find without knowing what they do and taking every objects they find to throw them on the walls. They act so randomly and pay so little attention, I think they would get lost on a straight corridor^^
Because, honestly, AMFP is pretty straight forward.
But you have a point because there are so much closed doors in the mansion that it could become a pain to explore every room.
@wretch : as there are a lot of closed doors in the mansion, I would suggest not opening all of them because I fear this will reduce the game's performances. Maybe remove some of them, even, so the player don't end up saying "why are all these doors open and not this one ?" Smile

(09-17-2013 08:07 AM)Ideka Wrote:  
(09-16-2013 09:38 AM)wretch Wrote:  More Pig! More Pig!: There will be a few extra monster encounters throughout the game.

Last worked on: Not started

OK I guess...
@wretch : I really do believe that some parts of the game could use one monster encounter.
For me, the game is almost perfect until the sewers. But, in the sewers, I was kind of disappointed that you don't really encounter any monster. The level is great, you can almost smell the stench. I really felt disgusted by this part, which is a good thing. But, fear ? Not really. That's the first part in the game where I began to think "Maybe it could be a little scarier".
There are a few other parts where I thought the same thing. But not much, so, don't overdo it^^
(09-17-2013 08:07 AM)Ideka Wrote:  
(09-16-2013 09:38 AM)wretch Wrote:  More Danger: The pig monster stats will be porked up exponentially, increasing the terror as the monsters now pose a very serious threat. Mandus will no longer regenerate health, relying on an alternate method of healing.

Last worked on: Not started

No. No no no no no. Don't do that. You may think a stronger monster equals a scarier monster, but that is simply not true. The player doesn't know how strong the monster is to begin with. Worse: players usually jump not when they die, but when they are hit. Being hit is scary, dying is not. If the monster is too strong, the player would die too quickly. Plus you risk making the game too hard, maybe even frustrating, completely destroying the atmosphere.

If you ask me, the best you could do is detect if the player is making an effort to survive, and make him immortal if he is. Otherwise let him die. Probably not easy to do though.
I agree on this one. Personnaly, I died 2 times during the game : on the first encounter and on the second Tesla Pig. Honestly, I don't mind that the monsters can hit me several times before dying (plus, you die after 3 or 4 hits which is not that much), they are not less scary because of that (that Tesla Pig... oh, man !).
The fact that the health regenerate doesn't bother me and it was also the case in TDD. But why not, because it could had some tension to walk in the dark with low health and a monster lurking.
@wretch I suggest you keep the regenerating health, but maybe it could be slower, like in The Dark Descent. Because if a player has low health, doesn't find health potion and must encounter more monsters that are beefed up, it can become frustrating (you know, the famous "I can't pass this f****ing part ! Every time the monster gets me, and I have no health at all ! I'm screwed ! - Rage Quit -")
As for the monsters, my only thought is that the Tesla Pig could be faster.

(09-17-2013 08:07 AM)Ideka Wrote:  
(09-16-2013 09:38 AM)wretch Wrote:  A few surprises: There will be 2 very special surprises. Maybe even 3! Super vague hint: One of them has something do with inventory. Let's just say I have this "something to do with the inventory" feature completely figured out already.

Last worked on: Not started

An inventory? Seriously? Truth is, since Penumbra, the inventory has been progresively becoming less and less relevant. If you ask me, it was only natural that it went away.

Even if you disagree with that, what the hell do you plan on having an inventory for, if I may ask? The game has no items for the player to store anyway.
I do agree that the inventory was almost useless in TDD.
Having one would also mean that you add several puzzles, which is not bad but, I don't know...
The inventory broke the rythm of the game for me in TDD. Everytime I had to go into my inventory to pick up the ONLY key I had to open the ONLY locked door, I thought "Please, Daniel, use it automatically. You don't have any other choice, so do it"
@wretch : Maybe only focus on the puzzles that use the physics of the engine. I totally understand why TCR didn't add puzzles like in TDD : it wouldn't make sense. We're in a factory and I don't see why some door should be unlocked with some complex puzzle. Everybody who works in here must be able to go everywhere, so, that wouldn't make sense. I think you should only play with the physics. You know, something like some broken pipes blocking a door or something like that.
(09-17-2013 08:07 AM)Ideka Wrote:  
(09-16-2013 09:38 AM)wretch Wrote:  Countless of minor changes: One of the many is the old chase theme from ATDD returning, as the new one is silent and does not induce the terror the old one did.

Last worked on: 2013.09.16

Doesn't sound bad, though I must say I liked how the game managed to have scary chases even without resorting to scary music.
@wretch : I already told you what were my feelings about that ^^
I love AMFP's score. If you can keep it, I would be more than happy. If you think it's best to use some of TDD's music, no problem.
But what I would highly recommand is that you don't add any music when a monster is lurking. I find it much more scary this way. I mean, MUCH more.
In TDD, at some point, it became like a routine." Alright, I hear music, so, let's look for the monster". In AMFP, with only the light flickering, I never knew if there was actually a monster, or if it was just to f**k with me. I was always tense due to that. I don't know what you thought about that, but I think you should keep that aspect. Music for chase and attack : Yes ! Otherwithse : Silence is golden Smile


Interactivity:

I don't think I'll be able to make every single object interactable without making the game run at less than 30 fps. I'll see just how many interactable objects in AMFP I'd be able to have in a level without seriously hurting the performance.

Exploration:

One of the surprise features and the possible third surprise feature aim to add a point to exploring these new rooms. A performance reduction with all those countless of locked doors in the Mansion is possible, but I'm confident it won't get bad.

More Pig:

The extra monster encounters won't be overused.

More Danger:

It won't be that hard, I'm not making the monsters into 5000000 speed beasts that 1 hit kill you and that they always know your exact hiding spot. No, pick a decent place to hide and you'll be fine. Also, this alternate method of healing isn't going to be a rare occasion, so health regen should go.

A few surprises:

Can't say anything here without spoiling big stuff about the mod. Sorry.

Countless of minor changes:

I'm not sure if it'll be possible to reimplement the search themes. Not like I'd want them back, it's a lot creepier when you don't know if that monster despawned or if he's searching that small, dark room that you have to go past if you ever want to leave that hallway. As for the TDD music, it's extremely unlikely I'll add any more TDD tracks to AMFP.

Since many people are expressing similar concerns about some of this hypothetical mods hypothetical features , perhaps I should make a FAQ.
09-17-2013 12:25 PM
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Tesseract Offline
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Posts: 493
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Post: #32
RE: PiggyPlus Mod Concept - Interactivity, Exploration, Monsters!

Quote:Interactivity: You'll be able to carry a lot more objects, just like good old The Dark Descent!
Last worked on: Not started

The game isn't intended to be Amnesia: The Dark Descent 2.

Quote:Exploration: Most of the locked doors are now unlocked and open for exploration.
Last worked on: Not started

There's a reason why most of the doors are locked in AMFP.

Quote:More Pig! More Pig!: There will be a few extra monster encounters throughout the game.
Last worked on: Not started

Why should there be anymore monster encounters than there already are?

Quote:Extra Creepy: The beefed up monster encounters will usually place you into a terrifying situation with a dark, creepy atmosphere. The atmosphere will also gain significant changes outside the monster encounters.
Last worked on: Not started

The game is already like that; again, why more encounters?

Quote:More Danger: The pig monster stats will be porked up exponentially, increasing the terror as the monsters now pose a very serious threat. Mandus will no longer regenerate health, relying on an alternate method of healing.
Last worked on: Not started

More monsters doesn't mean 'scary' as others have said it would just be annoying and repetitive.

Quote:Bug fixes: I will fix whatever bug I am capable of fixing. Expect no more getting stuck or falling out of map Special thanks to everybody who contributes to the "Pigs and the Bugs" topic.
Last worked on: Not started

It seems like you'll be adding more bugs with all of the unnecessary changes you'll making to an already good game.

Quote:A few surprises: There will be 2 very special surprises. Maybe even 3! Super vague hint: One of them has something do with inventory. Let's just say I have this "something to do with the inventory" feature completely figured out already.
Last worked on: Not started

Why is it so important to have an inventory?

Quote:Countless of minor changes: One of the many is the old chase theme from ATDD returning, as the new one is silent and does not induce the terror the old one did.
Last worked on: 2013.09.16

So basically you just want to create Amnesia: The Dark Descent 2, even though AMFP is intended to be different.

Quote:the amount of dangerous monster encounters is low, and even then these monsters prove not dangerous enough. Too slow, too easy to outrun. Hiding in rooms, praying the monster won't come, break down the door and eat you, is a thing that no longer exists in AMFP.


That's because AAMFP isn't ATDD.

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09-17-2013 12:47 PM
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wretch Offline
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Posts: 34
Joined: Sep 2013
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Post: #33
RE: PiggyPlus Mod Concept - Interactivity, Exploration, Monsters!

(09-17-2013 12:47 PM)Delirium92 Wrote:  
Quote:Interactivity: You'll be able to carry a lot more objects, just like good old The Dark Descent!
Last worked on: Not started

The game isn't intended to be Amnesia: The Dark Descent 2.

This has nothing to do with TDD. The point of returning interactivity is because it's fun and the loss of interactivity is one of the things people are most dissapointed with.


Quote:Exploration: Most of the locked doors are now unlocked and open for exploration.
Last worked on: Not started

There's a reason why most of the doors are locked in AMFP.

The point of this mod is to add replay value to people who have beaten the game. Adding exploration is an important part of that.
Quote:More Pig! More Pig!: There will be a few extra monster encounters throughout the game.
Last worked on: Not started

Why should there be anymore monster encounters than there already are?

Because right now there are very few monster encounters. Get it? Very. Few.
Quote:Extra Creepy: The beefed up monster encounters will usually place you into a terrifying situation with a dark, creepy atmosphere. The atmosphere will
also gain significant changes outside the monster encounters.
Last worked on: Not started

The game is already like that; again, why more encounters?

Exactly, it already is. But there's a bit of changes and improvements to be done.
Quote:More Danger: The pig monster stats will be porked up exponentially, increasing the terror as the monsters now pose a very serious threat. Mandus will no longer regenerate health, relying on an alternate method of healing.
Last worked on: Not started

More monsters doesn't mean 'scary' as others have said it would just be annoying and repetitive.

I've already said many times that the monsters encounters won't be brought up to repetitive levels.
Quote:Bug fixes: I will fix whatever bug I am capable of fixing. Expect no more getting stuck or falling out of map Special thanks to everybody who contributes to the "Pigs and the Bugs" topic.
Last worked on: Not started

It seems like you'll be adding more bugs with all of the unnecessary changes you'll making to an already good game.

Any bugs that appear due to my mod, I will fix them.
Quote:A few surprises: There will be 2 very special surprises. Maybe even 3! Super vague hint: One of them has something do with inventory. Let's just say I have this "something to do with the inventory" feature completely figured out already.
Last worked on: Not started

Why is it so important to have an inventory?

Exactly, it's not. It's not important. When did I ever say it was important to have an inventory?

Quote:Countless of minor changes: One of the many is the old chase theme from ATDD returning, as the new one is silent and does not induce the terror the old one did.
Last worked on: 2013.09.16

So basically you just want to create Amnesia: The Dark Descent 2, even though AMFP is intended to be different.

So basically I don't. Pretty sure bringing back a soundfile from TDD won't make this "The Dark Descent 2"

Quote:the amount of dangerous monster encounters is low, and even then these monsters prove not dangerous enough. Too slow, too easy to outrun. Hiding in rooms, praying the monster won't come, break down the door and eat you, is a thing that no longer exists in AMFP.


That's because AAMFP isn't ATDD.

Of course it's not. I liked TDD's creepy hiding gameplay more than AMFP's, it should be brought back.

Sorry, but I've never seen arguments as weak as yours presented in any of the countless of forums I've been in.
09-18-2013 08:30 AM
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Eyelander Offline
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Post: #34
RE: PiggyPlus Mod Concept - Interactivity, Exploration, Monsters!

I really hope this pulls through, the game was great and all but it did need more monster sightings and also needed more events where you don't feel safe or feel stalked. Really hope this can pull through!
09-18-2013 09:10 AM
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Retomathic Offline
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Post: #35
RE: PiggyPlus Mod Concept - Interactivity, Exploration, Monsters!

wow this is going to be amnesia a machine for pigs hard mode
09-18-2013 12:01 PM
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Alex Ros Offline
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Post: #36
RE: PiggyPlus Mod Concept - Interactivity, Exploration, Monsters!

Waste of time and talent. The game could be better, objectively. It's focused on the storyline, not on straight forward scares and horrors, but the storyline itself is not that good, objectively. There are a lot of problems with the development of the plot and intrigue, a lot of plot twists are predictable, badly predictable. As a result the whole idea of just expanding a Machine for Pigs and turning into somewhat the Dark Descent alike is a "waste of time and talent". In my very personal opinion, if anyone would ever decide to remake a Machine for Pigs and make it better, the very first thing that "anyone" should do is to edit the storyline itself. "Edit" does not mean to drastically change, but to... you know, editing is editing.

Clear example of what I am talking about. There are those children for whom we are looking everywhere. But it's absolutely clear there are no children alive. That's just a very bad complication of the plot. Objectively I believe. Just for example if Mandus would receive just a strange phone call "I have your children, do what I say if want to see them alive" without those ghosts-children running and speaking around, it could be a lot less predictable. I mean no children voices and figures running around at all. That's just an example of one single plot problem and how it could be solved without some drastic changes and intrusions into plot. Anyway, the goal of that post is to say that all your list of goals is nothing, "a waste of time and talent", if you're not going to fix plot "bugs". IMO of course. Everyone is free to do and think whatever they'd like to do or think.
(This post was last modified: 09-18-2013 04:49 PM by Alex Ros.)
09-18-2013 04:42 PM
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manuelspark Offline
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Post: #37
RE: PiggyPlus Mod Concept - Interactivity, Exploration, Monsters!

Great idea!
You could add lamp oil system. Also constant harassment of the pigs. Smile
09-18-2013 05:27 PM
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Potato Offline
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Post: #38
RE: PiggyPlus Mod Concept - Interactivity, Exploration, Monsters!

I personally don't see anything wrong with this, it's a fairly interesting idea and it's kinda cool to see what the community can put together. Though, I find several of the 'improvements' here pointless and unnecessary.

(09-16-2013 09:38 AM)wretch Wrote:  Interactivity: You'll be able to carry a lot more objects, just like good old The Dark Descent!
Last worked on: Not started
TCR limited interactivity for a reason. Performance. If you add back intractable props like the original game, expect a lot of complaints about laggy maps, especially areas like the Mansion.

(09-16-2013 09:38 AM)wretch Wrote:  Exploration: Most of the locked doors are now unlocked and open for exploration.
Last worked on: Not started
Again, there were about a half dozen rooms in the first level that were uninteractable, if you add a dozen more rooms just for exploration, I have a feeling it'll affect the performance negatively. A few additional rooms will be nice, but for the rest, I suggest to leave them be. Maybe add interactivity so that you can at least try to open the door, however, since not being able to touch the door is a lot less satisfying than being able to try to open it with no avail.

(09-16-2013 09:38 AM)wretch Wrote:  Countless of minor changes: One of the many is the old chase theme from ATDD returning, as the new one is silent and does not induce the terror the old one did.
Last worked on: 2013.09.16
This is rather vague, but the mention of replacing what I can only assume is the terror meter is a bad choice in my opinion. The goal of this is to improve AMFP, not make it like TDD, changing the terror meter because you don't like it is a bad example of managing the improvements. You say it's silent, and true, it's rather subtle, but what you can do to possibly improve it? Perhaps amplify the sound...? Not sure about you, but that's the first thing I'd try to do before replacing it entirely.

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09-18-2013 06:05 PM
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Pig Offline
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Post: #39
RE: PiggyPlus Mod Concept - Interactivity, Exploration, Monsters!

Very cool idea! I agree with some of what has been said already, though. I don't think the monsters need to be stronger. It really doesn't add anything to the experience but make it more annoying when you keep dying. I like the idea of having more pig encounters but I hope these new encounters focus on hiding rather than running away, since the current encounters do not do this at all. As for making more unlocked doors, this could be great but doesn't need to be over done. Like a few others mentioned, the first level has many doors that are locked and they're locked because there doesn't need to be a ton of rooms that serve no purpose to the story.

Outlast got very repetitive by the end of the game. This is why I enjoyed AMFP a lot more because it didn't do the same thing over and over again when it came to enemies. Keep that in mind Wink
09-18-2013 08:22 PM
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afroduckie Offline
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Post: #40
RE: PiggyPlus Mod Concept - Interactivity, Exploration, Monsters!

God bless you! If this makes it, a Youtube lets play with my name on it is going out to the web! I loved AMFP, but it needed to be like TDD so very badly. Thank you, Good Samaritan!
09-18-2013 11:53 PM
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