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Custom Story suggestions/comments/general constructive criticism
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Danny Boy Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Custom Story suggestions/comments/general constructive criticism

Ya agree 90% whit all this (except number 3 like Kyle so i am not going to repeat that) i realy do think people should look into this... because sometimes people do make a "dead" and unprofessional map... sometimes i see hallways too short to open doors i mean what the hell?! its like people make Amnesia Custom stories has if they were crapy spore adventures... if people want to make Custom stories for amnesia there two things they can make: or scary aventures like most of the custom stories whitch needs a lot of work of the atmosphere... and i mean a lot! so that the player gets scared WHITHOUT monsters spawning all over the place has if it is left 4 dead or something...or fannaly you can make funny custom stories like staying alive extreme edition... if that is the idea i admit there is no need for the atmosphere work! or to be be too creaful whit the static objects... but mist of the crap(yes i did say crap http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20...roblem.jpg ... problem?) i see in the showcase its like the "lol" custom stories but whitot the "lol" and whitout the crap in my pants... people should read this post BEFORE they go all happy and submit something they make in 5 minuts and supposedly "scary".

that is all

toby out!
(Toby: Steven! give my pattatos!
Steven: SHUT UP! MY NAME IS NOT STEVEN AND YOU ARE NOT TOBY!
Toby... hmm i meant Adriano: oh... so who are you exactly? http://img830.imageshack.us/img830/5005/lollvv.jpg )
(This post was last modified: 06-01-2011 08:24 PM by Danny Boy.)
06-01-2011 08:21 PM
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Anxt Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Custom Story suggestions/comments/general constructive criticism

Again, I agree that quality custom stories will have all of the things mentioned and not have flickering walls, bad sounds, bad transitions between bases, etc., but don't tell people they suck because they wanted to share what they have done with the community. If you don't like their story, tell them specifically how they can improve it if they want criticism. I cannot stress enough that the majority of people do this for fun, and you can really spoil the fun of making the custom story if you overly criticize or tell someone "don't submit unless you do all of these things."

If you feel you are seeing too many custom stories like this, well, only play ones that have screenshots showing you what is to come, or videos, or just generally well-laid out posts on this forum that suggests the person knows what they are doing.

I agree that in order for a custom story to truly be good, everything needs to work, there needs to be a good number of monsters, not too many or too few, and so on. But don't tell people their maps are "unprofessional" or "crap" just because they didn't put many hours of their free time into it. Be respectful. Some people have never tried making custom maps for games, and there is definitely a learning curve.

I know my posts have been long in this thread, but all I ask is that people show respect for others' work, as you would want it shown for yours. It is obvious that there are issues with some custom stories. Calling it crap doesn't fix it, nor does it encourage anyone to make their own or continue making them. We all like to have custom stories to play, and there are going to be some good and some bad, but if you put too much pressure on people to make it amazing, then fewer people will want to do it, and you may end up missing out on one that could have been the best out there if they had just stuck with it, but didn't because of overly-harsh criticisms or "requirements."

It's a hobby. Treat it as such. Don't insult someone's artwork because it has a few smudges.

Not trying to sound like a jerk, and I'm not accusing anyone else of being one, just be mindful that everything on this forum is merely text, and what might have been joking in the writer's eyes may come off as insulting to the reader.

06-01-2011 08:39 PM
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Kyle Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Custom Story suggestions/comments/general constructive criticism

I'm going to have to agree with you Anxt. I always try not to hate their custom story and tell them about how it sucks, but to rather to balance the weight by telling them about the good and bad things.

I don't treat scripting and custom story making as a hobby, I take it as my LIFE! Just kidding. Tongue

06-01-2011 08:51 PM
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DamnNoHtml Offline
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Posts: 469
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Post: #14
RE: Custom Story suggestions/comments/general constructive criticism

A lot of good points in this thread. I'd like to share a few tips for Custom Stories as well.

Uniqueness
For me, the most important thing is making a game and story that stands out from the rest. If you look in the Showcase forum, you'll see there are a lot of new Custom Stories being produced by users of this forum. Because of this, players are going to be exposed to, unfortunately, a lot of the same stuff over and over. This will diminish their interest in your game, and in Custom Stories in general. By creating something never done before (even with existing resources), you leave a memorable impression that makes people say "Yeah remember like in ____ game when...." I hate to be egotistical and refer to myself, but a good example of unique game-play using what you've already got is the Hall of Doors in Wake, which you have to use your ears to determine safe passage. Unfortunately I spend most of my Amnesia time creating and not playing, so I am not familiar with many other unique ideas. Feel free to post them here; I would actually like to see them!

Story
I would bet half of the people who even came to this forum came here to discuss the mythology and crazy story elements of Amnesia. However, Amnesia already did it. By "it", I mean the generic "hit my head and wake up in scary castle oh noes" idea. Obviously it isn't like Amnesia was the first game to ever include, well, amnesia, but since we are using the Amnesia engine to make these Custom Stories, it quickly gets tired out. Try branching out of the idea of evil castles inhabited by crazy people and create some mythology of your own. Palistov's La Caza is a good example of avoiding the simple "wake up confused" idea, instead taking a radically different intro approach.

Additionally, a thing Amnesia did so well was scatter the story among notes you might not even find rather than shove a story down your throat. Most of the unique mythology comes from notes you probably didn't even find on your first play through. Although it sucks when you create something cool and people don't see it, it only enhances the quality of your game.

Use of monsters
It is extremely hard to generate fear without the threat of actually being harmed. If the player knows that there are no monsters in the game, there is much less to fear. However, over-using monsters creates an even worse effect which was mentioned earlier in this thread - desensitization. By no means should a monster appear within the first minutes of the game. In fact, maybe include one or two in the entire game, and use sounds / lighting / environments to generate fear. The idea of not knowing when the actual threat will appear heightens the sense of fear throughout the entire game.

Fear
Just because Amnesia was a terrifying game, doesn't mean you have to insert pointless scare effects everywhere into the game. No one is telling you that your game has to be completely frightening and tense the entire time. Use physics, make puzzles, create story flashbacks, voice act, create impressive environments, forge a unique story, and develop the player character. Terrifying moments should only be in the game if they belong.

TL;DR
Choose uniqueness over most aspects of your game. Don't rely on monsters for scares. Make a story players want to reach the conclusion to. Don't forcibly insert fear where fear doesn't belong.

Creator of Wake, Through the Portal, Insomnia, and Cycles What to do with HPL3....
06-01-2011 08:57 PM
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Danny Boy Offline
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Post: #15
RE: Custom Story suggestions/comments/general constructive criticism

(06-01-2011 08:39 PM)Anxt Wrote:  Again, I agree that quality custom stories will have all of the things mentioned and not have flickering walls, bad sounds, bad transitions between bases, etc., but don't tell people they suck because they wanted to share what they have done with the community. If you don't like their story, tell them specifically how they can improve it if they want criticism. I cannot stress enough that the majority of people do this for fun, and you can really spoil the fun of making the custom story if you overly criticize or tell someone "don't submit unless you do all of these things."

If you feel you are seeing too many custom stories like this, well, only play ones that have screenshots showing you what is to come, or videos, or just generally well-laid out posts on this forum that suggests the person knows what they are doing.

I agree that in order for a custom story to truly be good, everything needs to work, there needs to be a good number of monsters, not too many or too few, and so on. But don't tell people their maps are "unprofessional" or "crap" just because they didn't put many hours of their free time into it. Be respectful. Some people have never tried making custom maps for games, and there is definitely a learning curve.

I know my posts have been long in this thread, but all I ask is that people show respect for others' work, as you would want it shown for yours. It is obvious that there are issues with some custom stories. Calling it crap doesn't fix it, nor does it encourage anyone to make their own or continue making them. We all like to have custom stories to play, and there are going to be some good and some bad, but if you put too much pressure on people to make it amazing, then fewer people will want to do it, and you may end up missing out on one that could have been the best out there if they had just stuck with it, but didn't because of overly-harsh criticisms or "requirements."

It's a hobby. Treat it as such. Don't insult someone's artwork because it has a few smudges.

Not trying to sound like a jerk, and I'm not accusing anyone else of being one, just be mindful that everything on this forum is merely text, and what might have been joking in the writer's eyes may come off as insulting to the reader.

ya you are right... i was kinda jerk wasn't i?
i hate wend that hapens Xc
but what i was just trying to say its for people to be more careful whit what they are doing... because i just hate to see maps that had potencial but some miss treated part of the map ruins the expirience :/
and i did tried to not look has a jerk has possible... i even made this just to make a lol at the end http://img830.imageshack.us/img830/5005/lollvv.jpg seruisly who the heck does this if is not lol a bit?
so my apologies... btw i didn't realy said a name of a custom story that i didn't like i hope i didn't make eny one cry.... http://img830.imageshack.us/img830/5005/lollvv.jpg lol... patatos...
(This post was last modified: 06-01-2011 10:14 PM by Danny Boy.)
06-01-2011 10:08 PM
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Anxt Offline
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Post: #16
RE: Custom Story suggestions/comments/general constructive criticism

Again, I wasn't trying to imply that you were being an outright jerk, I was just saying you should try to choose your words more carefully when speaking through text, as tone and hints of sarcasm aren't well conveyed.

06-01-2011 10:19 PM
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Khyrpa Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Custom Story suggestions/comments/general constructive criticism

(06-01-2011 10:08 PM)Danarogon Wrote:  so my apologies... btw i didn't realy said a name of a custom story that i didn't like i hope i didn't make eny one cry.... http://img830.imageshack.us/img830/5005/lollvv.jpg lol... patatos...

You seem like you're drunk, like I am atm, but the most annoying thing I see in most custom stories (I'm perfectionist jerk so about every story) are lighted badly, yes my own ones too! The fact that the maker doesn't simply empower lamp entities with lights somehow makes me frustrated. And keeping all the areas pitch black without box light and mass point lights make shit unnatural as f**k! I do agree that unnatural lighting looks good at some points, but sticking to it in every map just annoys me.

But if everyone would make maps like me, there wouldn't be as many published maps, because it takes a damn long time for me to complete a simple room for example: if I'm going to stick to my current style, I scripted so that when lighting a single candle, the script fades in 4point lights, 1 spot light and creates 1 particle effect (all tweaked in level editor and tested in game, and I agree its a overkill).

And please don't make too bright billboards that are placed so that they create dumb looking box ^^.
Self advertise, check the last billboardthingie (it looks almost good):
http://www.frictionalgames.com/forum/thread-7973.html

I hope I help someone, though I doubt I will. Don't let dumb fucks like me stop you from creating "rushed" simple stories! I will still play them...
(This post was last modified: 06-01-2011 11:56 PM by Khyrpa.)
06-01-2011 11:56 PM
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Danny Boy Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Custom Story suggestions/comments/general constructive criticism

Ok now i am going to try to be serious and try to be helpfull to people that don't know how to light the map well:

one good advise i think i could give about lightning is that use only box lights if it is going to fill the whole map... because i have seen some maps including frictional games themselfs to use the box lights in closed rooms... that might do some strange effects wend for example you open a door in wards that room, you will see that half door will be lighted while the other half will be dark... so my advise is that use more point lights if the map you are working on haves lighted and dark rooms, but try to make them very close the black unless you whant it more lighted.

hope that helps you guys to forget my "drunk" moment
(This post was last modified: 06-02-2011 01:11 AM by Danny Boy.)
06-02-2011 01:10 AM
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Khyrpa Offline
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Post: #19
RE: Custom Story suggestions/comments/general constructive criticism

(06-02-2011 01:10 AM)Danarogon Wrote:  hope that helps you guys to forget my "drunk" moment

This is also very important:
http://wiki.frictionalgames.com/hpl2/tut...tutorial_2

Few important things that has taught me are; use 0 alpha value for unimportant lights, tone the color of all lights, don't overdo shadows and use all 3 light types (box, point, spot)
06-02-2011 01:14 AM
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