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RE: Time? - Robby - 09-27-2012
(09-26-2012, 11:35 PM)Zaffre Wrote: Time, Dr. Scraper?I see what you did there.
Is it really that time again?
RE: Time? - BAndrew - 09-28-2012
Well, I don't know what you've read or heard but no one really knows nor understands what time is. And there is some problems here:
1.)There is no time without space. There is only spacetime (space and time together according to our current understandings). If you were about to fall in a black hole and let's suppose you won't die (chuck norris?) you could feel no change at all. But 1 second for you would be 900000 years (or so) for humans in Earth. This is kind of mysterious because it's kinda like travelling at the end of spacetime (but this is a bit weird).
2.)You can't measure time with time. Does it even make sense? I mean there is nothing you can compare time with.
3.)Spacetime is relevant to speed. Think for example that you are light. What do you see? You make no progress in time and space. You are instantly in everytime and everywhere. But let's use relativity here. You are light and you say (mark my words here it can become confusing) I AM NOT MOVING AT THE SPEED OF LIGHT,but EVERYTHING ELSE IS! This means everything else is light and light isn't light but something else(notice how you became light)!
4.) Time has a start. It was created exactly at the "time = 0" ? Go back and read 2.) when the big bang happened. I don't think "time before the start of time" thing makes any sense.
And it gets more complicated with more questions.What about other dimensions? What about time is an illusion. What shape is the universe? How was it born (Well Big Bang Theory)? Is time travel possible or is it prohibited by the laws of nature?What is light? Is there such thing as negative mass? And that's just a few of the questions.
About the chaos theory (butterfly effect), it's true. Future is unpredictable because it simply doesn't exist, it just WILL HAPPEN! The most simple system can have outcomes that are entirely unpredictable.
Well in fact I will stop here because I can even write a whole essay about this.
I have read one book recently and it's amazing it explains many about this topic.
Black Holes Wormholes And Time Machines by Jim Al Khalili.
Also a great documentary about the butterfly effect ( The Secret life Of Chaos BBC).
If you want to discuss more just reply. I just have too much to say (things I read from the book and general knowledge) and I don't know from where to start. I would be happy to (try) answer questions that you have. It is one of the most amazing subjects (I could say the most amazing subject) I know.
(I am not advertising any of the previous books/documentaries there is a ton of stuff to read and you can choose whatever you want).
For example other books that I have found (not read though but will do when i find time)
The Fabric of the Cosmos - B. Greene
The Tao of Physics - F. Capra
Mad About Modern Physics - F. Potter, C. Jargodzki
Perfect Symmetry - The Search for the Beginning of Time - H. Pagels
An Introduction To Black Holes Information And The String Theory - Susskind, Lindesay ( Requires great mathematical and physics knowledge)
Black Holes - Don Nardo
I recommend whoever created this thread (if he wants) to add in the first post all the questions we have so that we don't have to search the whole thread to see them. Thanks, at last someone came up with this awesome topic.
I agree that there is not such thing as "now". At least we can't live in "now because "now" is already in the past as I write this sentence. Think "now" to time as vertex to space. Vertex is a 0D version of space. Now is a 0D version of time.
RE: Time? - BAndrew - 09-28-2012
I also want to add something. Does infinite have a start and an end? Before starting anwser with "No" , "Of course not, infinite never ends" etc consider the following example:
√2=1,41421356237309504880168872420969807856967187537694807317667973799073247846210703885038753432764157273501384623091229702492483605585073721264412149709993583141322266592750559275579995050115278206057147010955997160597027453459686201472851741864088919860955232923048430871432145083976260362799525140798968725339654633180882964062061525835239505474575028775996172983557522033753185701135437460340849884716038689997069900481503054402779031645424782306849293691862158057846311159666871301301561856898723723528850926486124949771542183342042856860601468247207714358548741556570696776537202264854470158588016207584749226572260020855844665214583988....................
It has an infinitive ammounts of digits. Can you "draw" a √2?
Of course you can! You have to use the Pythagorean theorem. "Draw" 2 perpendicular lines with size 1. Now if you draw a line from vertex B to vertex C a right triangle is formed. The line segment
BC = √(AB + AC) <=>
BC = √(1+1) <=>
BC = √2
as shown in the picture attached (I am not native english and some of my expressions might be wrong. This is why I include this image in case you lost me.)
[attachment=3394]
So, you just draw a line with size √2 ie a line with an infinitive ammount of digits! Can infinite be something like that (well of course it would require more dimensions and SOMETHING BEYOND OUR UNIVERSE! (multiverse theory), but I hope you get what I mean)?
On the other side, Infinite is not a number. That makes it even more complicated.
RE: Time? - Kreekakon - 09-28-2012
In this case I'd then say the term "infinite" can be anything, which would also mean it cannot be properly measured in set stone.
So like you said with √2, it can be drawn, but it also can't be measured precisely.
RE: Time? - BAndrew - 09-28-2012
(09-28-2012, 12:45 PM)Kreekakon Wrote: In this case I'd then say the term "infinite" can be anything, which would also mean it cannot be properly measured in set stone.Quite correct!
So like you said with √2, it can be drawn, but it also can't be measured precisely.
Consider this: Is space infinite? If yes (considering our universe contains space and time itself), then space must be infinite in order to accomodate space. If not, this means that the universe has an edge?* (which is not making any sense).
*However this is not necessary. Space might not be infinite, but universe can be which ressolves the paradox.
So does the universe have to be infinite?
RE: Time? - Statyk - 09-28-2012
Simply the IDEA of space being infinite is one of those thoughts that suppresses my mind. Like by brain is telling itself to calm down, hit the brakes on thinking. It's just such a huge, unknown idea, yet so amazing. To think that perhaps somewhere near infinity, there is another earth, with people just like us. You know? But none of our telescopes can see that far out.
Mix that with that topic, how long do you think it'd take to get there? Perhaps we could pull a Halo 3 and toss ourselves into cryostasis and sleep out the journey.
RE: Time? - Danny Boy - 09-28-2012
(09-28-2012, 04:31 PM)Statyk Wrote: Simply the IDEA of space being infinite is one of those thoughts that suppresses my mind. Like by brain is telling itself to calm down, hit the brakes on thinking. It's just such a huge, unknown idea, yet so amazing. To think that perhaps somewhere near infinity, there is another earth, with people just like us. You know? But none of our telescopes can see that far out.fun fact: The universe is not infinite (nor there is infinite matter in it).
Mix that with that topic, how long do you think it'd take to get there? Perhaps we could pull a Halo 3 and toss ourselves into cryostasis and sleep out the journey.
now the current mystery for physics is to figure out its shape.
RE: Time? - BAndrew - 09-28-2012
(09-28-2012, 04:31 PM)Statyk Wrote: Simply the IDEA of space being infinite is one of those thoughts that suppresses my mind. Like by brain is telling itself to calm down, hit the brakes on thinking. It's just such a huge, unknown idea, yet so amazing. To think that perhaps somewhere near infinity, there is another earth, with people just like us. You know? But none of our telescopes can see that far out.It would literally take forever. The universe is expanding at very high speed and therefore the chances of us getting there are nill.
Mix that with that topic, how long do you think it'd take to get there? Perhaps we could pull a Halo 3 and toss ourselves into cryostasis and sleep out the journey.
(09-28-2012, 05:08 PM)Danny Boy Wrote: fun fact: The universe is not infinite (nor there is infinite matter in it).Well, I didn't know that. I thought that scientists don't know yet if
now the current mystery for physics is to figure out its shape.
the universe is infinite or not. Can you provide a link or more
information?
And yes there is not infinite matter in the universe.
RE: Time? - Kreekakon - 09-28-2012
(09-28-2012, 05:27 PM)BAndrew Wrote: Well, I didn't know that. I thought that scientists don't know yet ifI remember watching an episode of Bill Nye the Science Guy where he talked about if the universe was finite, or not.
the universe is infinite or not. Can you provide a link or more
information?
And yes there is not infinite matter in the universe.
RE: Time? - Robby - 09-28-2012
So much complexity... But of course, we don't know if the universe is infinite or not. There's only one way to find that one out.
Space Express, here I come!