(09-30-2012, 09:38 PM)Robosprog Wrote:

(09-30-2012, 09:30 PM)BAndrew Wrote:

(09-30-2012, 09:28 PM)Statyk Wrote: Technically every idea needs humans to exist.

So if there were no humans, there would be no atoms?

(09-30-2012, 09:40 PM)failedALIAS Wrote:

(09-30-2012, 09:30 PM)BAndrew Wrote:

(09-30-2012, 09:28 PM)Statyk Wrote: Technically every idea needs humans to exist.

So if there were no humans, there would be no atoms?

He said IDEAS! Time and mathematics are not physical existing things! Mathematics has no affect on the universe by itself, what so ever! TIME IS A CONCEPT!!! IT'S A MEASUREMENT OF THE PASSAGE OF EVENTS AND THOUGHTS AND OTHER STUFF! We came up with these to UNDERSTAND AND MEASURE EVERYTHING!!!

(09-30-2012, 09:38 PM)Robosprog Wrote:

(09-30-2012, 09:36 PM)BAndrew Wrote:

(09-30-2012, 09:35 PM)Robosprog Wrote: What's the time guys?

Is your question what is time? or what's the time?
If it is the first I don't know, if it is the second it depends on your time zone and you are just trolling.

(09-30-2012, 09:41 PM)BAndrew Wrote:

(09-30-2012, 09:40 PM)failedALIAS Wrote:

(09-30-2012, 09:30 PM)BAndrew Wrote:

(09-30-2012, 09:28 PM)Statyk Wrote: Technically every idea needs humans to exist.

So if there were no humans, there would be no atoms?

He said IDEAS! Time and mathematics are not physical existing things! Mathematics has no affect on the universe by itself, what so ever! TIME IS A CONCEPT!!! IT'S A MEASUREMENT OF THE PASSAGE OF EVENTS AND THOUGHTS AND OTHER STUFF! We came up with these to UNDERSTAND AND MEASURE EVERYTHING!!!

Atoms is an idea as well. And again time isn't the measurement of the passage of events. You are completely mistaken.

(09-30-2012, 09:46 PM)failedALIAS Wrote:

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(09-30-2012, 09:41 PM)BAndrew Wrote:

(09-30-2012, 09:40 PM)failedALIAS Wrote:

(09-30-2012, 09:30 PM)BAndrew Wrote:

(09-30-2012, 09:28 PM)Statyk Wrote: Technically every idea needs humans to exist.

So if there were no humans, there would be no atoms?

He said IDEAS! Time and mathematics are not physical existing things! Mathematics has no affect on the universe by itself, what so ever! TIME IS A CONCEPT!!! IT'S A MEASUREMENT OF THE PASSAGE OF EVENTS AND THOUGHTS AND OTHER STUFF! We came up with these to UNDERSTAND AND MEASURE EVERYTHING!!!

Atoms is an idea as well. And again time isn't the measurement of the passage of events. You are completely mistaken.

Then who are you to suppose that the Universe just doesn't care about what's going on at all. We human beings will eventually die out, either to rise up as something greater, or perhaps in one fell swoop - silencing the Universe for quite a while. Will the Universe care? No, and it'll just keep on existing.
There is not such thing as any natural order, even in the most intelligent of forms. The Universe simply exists.

Time is both the passage of events and the natural and concept of which everything progresses through existence. It isn't an infinite hourglass, or a moving line. It's like a big floating bubble of water, holding an infinite number of other bubbles(assuming there's plenty of life out there) each with there own ideas and notions of what everything else, outside really is. The main bubble has no thoughts towards this and no objections.

Take a bunch of random junk and put it in a pile, and that's basically the most accurate example that we can physically create of the universe. Just a bunch of stuff.

(09-30-2012, 10:04 PM)BAndrew Wrote: Firstly, I didn't say that the universe doesn't exist nor that it cares about what we do.
Secondly, about time:
10000 OR SO SCIENTISTS WHO DEDICATED AND DEDICATE THEIR LIVES ON THE CONCEPT OF TIME CAN'T TELL WHAT TIME ACTUALLY IS AND YOU SUDDENLY TELL US THAT TIME IS : both the passage of events and the natural and concept of which everything progresses through existence.

(09-30-2012, 10:24 PM)Your Computer Wrote: I would agree that things like time do not require humans to exist. But i would argue it is logically impossible for time to exist without a conscious. I would never agree that time bears a conscious itself, but this does not contradict my previous statement nor cause paradoxes for me. Our definition of a conscious comes from the very existence of entities like ourselves. Therefore we cannot logically deny that a conscious demands self-awareness, for that would be like denying our own existence. We therefore acknowledge that in order for something motionless to be set in motion, or for something without a conscious to act like it has a conscious, a conscious entity is required to give that appearance. I would argue this conscious exists and is dominant over the universe and is the very reason why something like time would exist.

(09-30-2012, 10:33 PM)Statyk Wrote:

(09-30-2012, 10:24 PM)Your Computer Wrote: I would agree that things like time do not require humans to exist. But i would argue it is logically impossible for time to exist without a conscious. I would never agree that time bears a conscious itself, but this does not contradict my previous statement nor cause paradoxes for me. Our definition of a conscious comes from the very existence of entities like ourselves. Therefore we cannot logically deny that a conscious demands self-awareness, for that would be like denying our own existence. We therefore acknowledge that in order for something motionless to be set in motion, or for something without a conscious to act like it has a conscious, a conscious entity is required to give that appearance. I would argue this conscious exists and is dominant over the universe and is the very reason why something like time would exist.

I'm confused. At first, you're saying it's impossible for something without a conscious to exist without another conscious, for example, humans. Then at the end, are you saying something without a conscious exists without another conscious (humans)? I might be reading this wrong but it seems like you're going against what you said.