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Intelligence of Infection - Sexbad - 09-19-2009

Suicide is against the Rules.

Spoiler below!
So, Red can not kill himself but is able to trap himself in a furnace intentionally. I don't really understand how the infection works really if it doesn't want Red to die. Can it, like, control his actions but not read his thoughts?

I'm flipping tired so I don't feel like typing in detail modda foggas discuss.

RE: Intelligence of Infection - Kedjane - 09-19-2009

Well, it isn't sure that Red actually was infected.
I just came to think of that Red has 12 crosses or something in his room, could all this "it's against the rules" be religiousness? If he's catholic then suicide would mean going straight to hell, while having another person kill him wouldn't be as bad (or something like that it goes).
Ever since we started discussing Red we've been thinking about some Archaic rules (later pretty much disprooved by the fact that the Archaic hands out suicide pills to everyone who wants one) or that he was controlled by the Tuurngait, perhaps he was just a religious madman?

Anyhow if he is infected it is still possible he wasn't as infected as Philip turned and perhaps the Tuurngait only could keep him from doing direct harm to himself, or couldn't make out his intention when he crawled into the furnace. I don't recall Clarence ever predicting Philip's intentions and with people being unpredictable it's possible the Tuurngait, if they controlled Red, thought he was just going to hide inside the furnace and feel sorry.
Still, if the Tuurngait could force him to keep eating and all such I guess they should be able to keep him out of a furnace... so actually until disprooven I'll stick to the religious theory.

RE: Intelligence of Infection - Yuhaney - 09-19-2009

I haven't played Black Plague for a while now, but if I recall correctly, doesn't Clarence say at some point of game about Red that they (the infection), took over him as well?

RE: Intelligence of Infection - noctislp - 09-19-2009

(09-19-2009, 10:48 AM)Kedjane Wrote: Well, it isn't sure that Red actually was infected.
I just came to think of that Red has 12 crosses or something in his room, could all this "it's against the rules" be religiousness? If he's catholic then suicide would mean going straight to hell, while having another person kill him wouldn't be as bad (or something like that it goes).
Ever since we started discussing Red we've been thinking about some Archaic rules (later pretty much disprooved by the fact that the Archaic hands out suicide pills to everyone who wants one) or that he was controlled by the Tuurngait, perhaps he was just a religious madman?

Anyhow if he is infected it is still possible he wasn't as infected as Philip turned and perhaps the Tuurngait only could keep him from doing direct harm to himself, or couldn't make out his intention when he crawled into the furnace. I don't recall Clarence ever predicting Philip's intentions and with people being unpredictable it's possible the Tuurngait, if they controlled Red, thought he was just going to hide inside the furnace and feel sorry.
Still, if the Tuurngait could force him to keep eating and all such I guess they should be able to keep him out of a furnace... so actually until disprooven I'll stick to the religious theory.

(Hmm, it's been a while since i've posted... SadSmile

Well, first of all (I'm Catholic), suicide doesn't always mean that you will go to hell. It depends on your situation, and of coarse what God wants, which we bases from your situation. In Red's case, he'll most likely go to heaven since he never really did anything wrong, not to mention he saved your life. Yes, suicide is a mortal sin, which normally (according to my knowledge) would almost for sure send him to hell, but he might of had a good reason to, I'm not sure. (I haven't played the games for a while)

My point: It depends.

RE: Intelligence of Infection - ShnitzelKiller - 09-19-2009

(09-19-2009, 12:36 PM)Scraper Wrote: I haven't played Black Plague for a while now, but if I recall correctly, doesn't Clarence say at some point of game about Red that they (the infection), took over him as well?

CLARENCE Wrote:There was one other we infected... Red, that was his name.
Did he call us a disease?

Or something along those lines.

RE: Intelligence of Infection - Yuhaney - 09-19-2009

Yes, that was the part I was pointing to.

RE: Intelligence of Infection - eliasfrost - 09-20-2009

"Yes, another one was infected... Red. He so wanted to, but we wouldn't let him die... Did he call us a disease!?" I'm pretty sure that's what he said.

RE: Intelligence of Infection - nireth - 09-21-2009

The way I see it is that the virus didn't control his actions, but alter his perception. Let's assume he was at the very least familiar with the Catholic suicide = bad concept (or even the plain human suicide = not exactly the most awesome thing concept): in that case the virus could've amplified and emphasised this idea in his mind to a point where it was impossible for Red to go through with any attempt (e.g. put noose around neck + kick away chair = suicide = AGAINSTTHERULESAWFULOMG!).

But then the furnace was something of a backdoor, something he could bring himself to do, because locking himself in the furnace was not something immediately and obviously resulting in his death. Say without Philip over time the virus conditioning would've reminded him that being locked in furnace = starving/dehydration = suicide = AGAINSTTHERULESDAMMIT! and made him uneasy to a point where he'd have to get out eventually, but as it was I believe the notion of I AM COMMITING SUICIDE in his actions was not strong enough to trigger the I AM ACTING AGAINST THE RULES response.

RE: Intelligence of Infection - Razalhague - 09-21-2009

Well, he did have a noose in his room (which is obviously a tool for suicide), so preparing for suicide seems to be "OK" to him.

RE: Intelligence of Infection - nireth - 09-21-2009

Exactly! Preparation is one thing, but the final step (kicking a chair, pulling a trigger,...) is supposedly difficult enough in normal context, let alone if something in your head is enhancing all those feelings of doubt, hesitation, guilt and what have you.

So "sitting back and doing nothing" when that final step is taken for you by somebody else seems easy enough to do in comparison.