Execution / Game

[Cuyir]

@Bridge: I have played a shit ton of games in my lifetime. I really can't think of any other game that married all the elements without making it feel clunky as games usually do to me.

Something is almost always off. Either the production value (visuals, sound, music, etc.) is incredible but it's *just* encircling a standard game that does nothing special with them or it's just a game that's focused entirely on gameplay (which is fine, of course) and then one of the other elements (usually narrative) suffers. It's basically a trade off a long long long list of games make.

I am almost sure that we're disagreeing on a definition basis (ie I have a much stricter view on games and the effects of the other elements on them).

Honestly, I am fanatical about a lot of games but I can only think of TLOU being the only game that uses all the elements without being clunky. The game's tone, theme and even Joel's and Ellie's characterization are seen THROUGH gameplay, not just ''SHHHH CUTSCENE".

F.E.A.R 2 (a game I absolutely love) is just a horror shooter with a nice universe, production values and narrative...but it's still a shooter. It doesn't have gameplay mechanics that furthers the narrative, it's just...gameplay. I can argue that the game's production values (seen in the aural and visual hallucinations) directly reflect the narrative and events through gameplay but it's still not enough in my book.

Dead Space series (a series I love also) does the whole hallucination thing very well too(that's tied into gameplay) but it's just a third person horror shooter. It does offer a lot of characterization through Isaac's grunts and the way he fights off necromorphs but still not enough. Still feels off. Still feels like there's a disconnect between the elements. Still feels like one or more of the elements aren't being used to their best because they have to build gameplay around it.

Metroid Prime (a game I worship) does a lot of things incredibly well. Masterful even. But again, it feels off from time to time.

The topic in discussion was ''Videogames are the highest form of art'' to which I said no. The trade offs affect it too much in my point of view for it to be the ''highest form of art''. Such trade aren't seen in ''purer'' art forms.

And I feel like I have to state my experience with games. Videogames have always been my favorite entertainment medium, followed VERY closely by music, written works and movies. So my point of view isn't from some snob that recently discovered games and is trying to make them lesser. It's just how I see them. I'd rather have a masterful focused experience that has zero tradeoffs than one that brings a lot of other elements together but suffers a bit for it.