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Eternium: Sins of the Father [Full Release]
The chaser Offline
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RE: Eternium: Sins of the Father [Full Release]

(10-31-2013, 05:39 PM)Robosprog Wrote:
(10-31-2013, 05:16 PM)The chaser Wrote:
(10-31-2013, 05:05 PM)Robosprog Wrote: Holy shit how did I miss that flicker? Apologies about that! Also, the key -should- be useful, but it's only use is with the door so yeah that's supposed to happen.

Yea well, the problem is that when I use the key and it disappears, the door doesn't unlock Sad
That means you don't have every item from that level.

Oh, I'll replay it then Smile

[Image: k6vbdhu]

Aculy iz dolan.
11-01-2013, 12:13 PM
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Wapez Offline
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RE: Eternium: Sins of the Father [Full Release]

This review will be a rather big one, so I'll split it into several sections.

This review will mostly focus on the bad things.

Contains spoilers.

Spoiler below!

Overall, the map detail in this mod was above decent. Proper use of decals and the placing of most entites makes the maps stand out from the really simple Custom Stories, and adds a somewhat more interesting touch to the exploring part. However, this is ruined by the architecture and major level design. It's in many places weird and confusing, and sometimes almost impossible to keep track of. I often found myself struggling with something as simple as walking back the way I came from just a minute ago. The "basement-mines" part is a perfect example of this. I strafed around for a way too long time down there, and I hard a time getting it all to make sense. By the time I was crawling around under the floor, I was completely lost. Creating a map that remains "unknown" to the player can have a great effect to some extent, but it was overdone in this mod.
Now to the lighting. This part is something I know you put a lot of effort into to make it look good, but I feel like it's too much effort, and that you lost track of the "reality part" while trying to make it beautiful. Looking at a window while it's midnight and seeing that enormous beams of light is shining through and that it's lighting up the entire room in a bright blue color does not feel right. While sometimes good looking to the eye, it's far from realistic. The same goes for small candles and lanterns that lights up enormous areas in a sometimes really dumb way, while my own lantern literally cannot light up the smallest spot on my screen.
Another example of this is the one below:

[Image: 2013-11-03_00005_zpsc60a6862.jpg]

While this may cool to some people, it looks completely unrealistic. The fire on a candle is small and the light it gives away is not even close to what the giant PointLights that you placed does. A real candle gives an effect that looks like this:

[Image: THISISAFUCKINGCANDLE_zpsa33a95c1.jpg]

This is something that I think you need to work with: your lighting is simply too complicated - and this makes it look unrealistic. Very often due to the enormous amount of light coming from sources that shouldn't provide any at all. Below there's an image of the same scene as above, but in the HPL editor. The image to the right is what it looks like in your final version. The left version is what it looks like after I deleted 10 of your 11 PointLights. I did not modify it in any other way myself.

[Image: poop_light_zpsc0c36d98.png]

I think most people would agree with me that the left version looks better and more realistic. It's far from perfect - I just deleted a bunch of lights - but it's a lot better than the scene in your version. Below is a few more of the areas that just didn't make any sense.


Other than that, there were several clipping textures and decals, as well as randomly placed planes and surfaces that is really buggy. I get a strong feeling like your maps haven't been tested at all.

Testing and improving is what makes perfection.

This picture explains itself:
[Image: 2013-11-03_00007_zpsf7eb28f4.jpg]

This ends this section.

Spoiler below!

In this mod, several huge changes to the gameplay was made. The first major change was that you used normal swing doors as level doors, without any warning to the player first. Maybe it seems like a good idea at first, but it's really annoying while put to use.
Several times I tried to grab a door to open it and see what's inside, to decide wether it's worth taking that way, or if I should choose another. But when I instead I get a loading screen, and I'm transferred to another map, without being able to return to the previous one without an unspecified amount of items really makes it feel like a stupid and really unecessary function. Why not use the normal level doors, or at least the hand icon that lets the player know that a loading screen is coming up? I don't get it.
On top of this, several doors were uninteractable and had static physics, until you used a key on them. Why not simply lock them, and let the player unlock it as usual? The static physics gives the impression of the door not being involved in any gameplay whatsoever. If you necessarily have to implement this feature, I suggest you at least give a feint hint about it. Changing the way original Amnesia entities work, without a logical or detailed explanation either makes the player very confused and/or annoyed, as well as that it might look like a bug.

The puzzles in this mod were few, and not complicated at all. However, I can't recall more than one or two hints, notes or mementos giving any information on what to actually do, which made the "puzzles" way too hard for anyone who didn't develop the mod. It was basically just me finding a key, and using it. Sometimes I had to find a path leading somewhere, but with no clue of me having to find it, or it existing at all, it's really hard to do any progress.
All the puzzles eventually just led to unlocking a door leading to the next area, and the ways of unlocking them was basically the same all along.
- Just use key.
- Use key and acid.
- Just use acid.
It rarely makes any sense at all - and is above all incredibly boring and repetitive.

The scares, too, feel cheap and rushed through. Most of them are unoriginal and not scary at all. The second you pick up a container you hear a loud crash from the next room, and when you pick up a key a monster jumps out of a closet that you obviously knew he was hiding in. I don't understand why he'd break the door to that room to hide in the closet anyway. I'd call it cheap jumpscares - and that's what the fear in this mod is based of.

By the way, there's an empty note in the "basement-mines" part.

That ends this section.

Spoiler below!

There is rarely any story at all in this mod, and what's actually implemented is terribly uninteresting. It's basically just explained through random, short notes, and I barely understood who I was or what I was doing there. All I can say about this part is basically that more story should be in the mod, and through other ways than notes. Flashbacks, sounds, disturing events and voice acting would give it so much more depth.

I didn't feel like I got any connection at all to the main character. I really didn't feel like I was a part of the game, I just followed an already decided path for a man that I didn't know anything about. Yet there was areas where I could interact with objects, to get the character's thoughts about it. Most of these didn't make any sense to me, but that might be because I didn't understand the story in the first place. However, implying exact thoughts into the players and main characters head is something that's very hard and should be done in a carefully and subtle way. Not like the way you do it in my last image, below.

Please, be careful when you're in control of someone else's thoughts. This sentence itself put a major distance between me and the main character.

That ends this section.

I would give this mod a 3/10. Those 3 points are representing the detailed mapping that you have created on several places.

Spoiler below!

Way too much and too bright light:
[Image: 2013-11-03_00017_zpsa01aee63.jpg]

The light stretches incredibly and unrealistically far:
[Image: 2013-11-03_00012_zpsaa333b2b.jpg]

The candle's light should at least not reach that table:
[Image: 2013-11-03_00014_zps4cf5291d.jpg]

This feels incredibly immature, and could offend some people.
[Image: 2013-11-03_00008_zps65c22501.jpg]

Founder & Legally Accountable Publisher of Red Line Games.
Environment & Gameplay Designer and Scripter.
(This post was last modified: 11-03-2013, 02:57 PM by Wapez.)
11-03-2013, 02:53 PM
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daortir Offline
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RE: Eternium: Sins of the Father [Full Release]

That review was insanely rough and I really doubt it is honest. I'll play the mod by myself and I'll get my very personal opinion on it. Be right back.

Edit :
I had the same problem as The Chaser.

Spoiler below!
I picked the Acid, the container, and the Key. Used the key on the door but it really doesn't seem to give much fuck about it, since nothing happens when I click on it. I am bad with scripting, but in you script it seems that picking the container sets the ready to leave variable to 0.

=> SetLocalVarInt("ReadyToLeave", 0);

Since i found the container after the acid, the ReadyToLeave variable was at 1 when I picked the acid, then it came back to 0, then to 1 when I used the key, am I right ? That's not enough to unlock the door.

About what I played, I have a few things to say !
Good job with the mapping, I think it looks really great. That's just my very humble opinion, but I think you did a great job with it. The few notes I found are well-written, and we can see you put a lot of efforts into little details, which is always great to see. It makes the CS enjoyable to play : you enjoyed making it, and we enjoy playing it.

I also appreciate the way you deal with level doors. Actually, I really like the fact that you tried something new. In my humble opinion, you should have explained it first, because I was pretty mindfucked at first, and it is true that it can be annoying to leave a map when you don't want to. But still, I LOVE to see new gameplay elements in a mod. It's sooo sweet to see something unexpected in a CS/FC.

I found some glitching textures in the very first room by the way, check out the top of the wooden structures when looking at it from the desk on top of the stairs. Also, the cloth pile in the cellar_lab map is glitching with the papers.

About the scares, I like the atmosphere you created, though I really think the closet scare is not really good, because you see it coming. Don't get me wrong, I don't mean I prefer retarded teleporting naked guys that you don't expect, but it was just way too obvious since there was nowhere else the monster could have gone. Maybe even making the event happen when walking near the closet after picking the key would have been better, or even not showing the monster at all before. Making it happen in a way we couldn't really see coming.


So far, the mod is great, I like the level design and the little details, and I'll tell more about that when I'll have played all the levels. The closet scare is too obvious though. I really like the fact that you tried to implement new stuff in the FC, it's really nice to play !

A lot of work in that mod, and we feel it. Keep up the good work !

(This post was last modified: 11-03-2013, 05:38 PM by daortir.)
11-03-2013, 04:48 PM
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daortir Offline
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RE: Eternium: Sins of the Father [Full Release]

My review is in page 4, actually ! I posted it as an Edit to my first message, which probably wasn't really smart of me.

Anyway I'd be pleased to discuss with you of what I said.

Just saying but if I had to rate your mod I'll give it something between 9 and 10. I'm aware I didn't fully played it because I probably had the same issue as the chaser (or maybe i'm just terrible at playing, idk), but so far I had a lot of fun playing it. Anyway, full review at the bottom of page 4 !

11-03-2013, 05:45 PM
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daortir Offline
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RE: Eternium: Sins of the Father [Full Release]

I am sorry for insisting on that, but since I picked the acid first, and then the container which sets back the variable to 0, I can't open the door right ?
Or did I misunderstand something in your post/the script ?

11-03-2013, 05:56 PM
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daortir Offline
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RE: Eternium: Sins of the Father [Full Release]

No problem at all. I hope it won't give you too much work to fix it, I know how much it can feel annoying to work again on something you thought was over.

Good luck with that, and my pleasure for informing you: as a beginner scripter, I'm actually a little proud that I managed to understand how your scripts are working, and I learnt some stuff from it. Thanks to you, sir.

11-03-2013, 06:02 PM
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ExpectedIdentifier Offline

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RE: Eternium: Sins of the Father [Full Release]

Same problem as others, can't leave the area with the suitor/key, you definitely need to test your maps more before releasing stuff! I will review up to this point though, map by map.

Contains spoilers

Spoiler below!

Main menu - please use static physics on objects in the main menu, things go CLUNK every time I'm on it!

1st map - Very detailed map, lighting is fairly good. Halo billboards look pretty bad and don't fit IMO, way too bright too. Saw a couple of beams that were flickering where they were joining other beams, should probably change their width/height to 0.99 or something so that doesn't happen. Maybe also disable collision on some things that the player has to walk through that are just scenery, it can get a little annoying getting stuck on tiny things. Scripting is ok, nothing amazing really just standard Amnesia styled events. Everything works like it should, maybe reduce the amount of time the player looks at the monster walking past the gate, we get it there's a monster there Tongue Static door was a little off-putting, kinda makes it seem like it's nothing to do with the gameplay when it actually is! Quick question - how did the player get stuck in a room with a locked door? Tongue

2nd map (sewers) - Again, good mapping! Lighting is quite nice too, I would reduce the speed that the water reflection moves, it looks WAY too fast. I would also add some sounds to the water falling from pipes, it was a little weird walking past them and not hearing anything. Also I don't get why the rope was already there before I even placed it in the puzzle.

3rd map (hub-looking map)
Didn't get to see much of this as I left the level pretty early due to a level door I didn't know was a level door! What I did see though, again nice detail and lighting. The ladder though, I'd stuck with a normal ladder and not one the player can run up and down.. innovation is good but only if it works!

4th map (wine cellar 2.0)
Okay, I swear this map has some serious similarities to the wine cellar in Amnesia, the entrance, stairs that break etc. Anyway this map was good from what I played of it, the pickup the container and loud noise was lame, but the monster appearing when the key was picked up actually surprised me a little (took me a while to find it and I forgot about the locked cabinet which the monster was obviously supposed to be in! Tongue ) This is where I played up to because of the bug with the variables.

Overall: Think you concentrated too much on the mapping, consequently the gameplay suffers. No real innovation, just a couple features that made it worse IMO (dem doors). Few ambient sounds. 5.5/10

Closure ModDB page:

[Image: 16LO8Sx]
(This post was last modified: 11-03-2013, 07:10 PM by ExpectedIdentifier.)
11-03-2013, 07:05 PM
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HumiliatioN Offline
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RE: Eternium: Sins of the Father [Full Release]

Well.. I think this thread is safely saved for now. Smile lol.

“Life is a game, play it”
11-03-2013, 11:38 PM
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daortir Offline
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RE: Eternium: Sins of the Father [Full Release]

Since I was bored, I decided to play the outdoor maps in your CS. They are incredible. I have no idea how they are implemented to your story later on, but the lighting in those outdoor "ruins" is unbelievable.


EDIT : Dat easter egg -more like easter bull though- made me laugh pretty hard xP

(This post was last modified: 11-04-2013, 01:10 AM by daortir.)
11-04-2013, 12:35 AM
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Tetrafish Offline

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RE: Eternium: Sins of the Father [Full Release]

Perhaps I didn't find enough oil but - I made it to a part -which I'm sure is still early in this game- where I ran out of oil and kept going through what must've been a maze. I hate to say it but I was like Dodgy "forget this" and turned up the gamma. And at that point I didn't feel much motivation to play since I felt like I was cheating a bit - but I didn't have much of a choice since it was almost impossible to see anything. Sad

eta: Oops. I was actually a lot closer to the ending than I thought. Oh well... Undecided
(This post was last modified: 11-11-2013, 09:58 AM by Tetrafish.)
11-11-2013, 08:30 AM
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