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Why is the engine frame-rate limited?
MulleDK19 Offline
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#11
Solved: 3 Years, 9 Months, 1 Week ago RE: Why is the engine frame-rate limited?

(09-09-2010, 07:02 AM)Kleetus Wrote: Isn't it the same thing though, it's locking my frame-rate to 60FPS, which is the same as my refresh rate?

Are you ignorant, or just stupid?
(09-09-2010, 06:52 AM)jens Wrote: Because limiting the framrate to 60 has nothing to do with syncing the rendering to the update of the screen, that is why you need to have vsync enabled to remove the tearing.



(09-09-2010, 07:02 AM)Kleetus Wrote:
(09-09-2010, 06:52 AM)jens Wrote: it is locked to 60 as there is no need for it to be higher
With this point, I beg to differ.

Limiting the frame-rate can affect input responsiveness.

For me, runnning the game at 60FPS creates input lag.

At 80FPS, it's like playing another game, it's much smoother.
If you get input lag at 60 fps, you've got a virus or something.

Turn off mouse smoothing in options.



(09-09-2010, 07:02 AM)Kleetus Wrote: My specs
---------

Intel Core2Duo E8500 @ 3.16GHz.
4GB DDRII Ram
SAPPHIRE 4890 Factory OC with 10.8 drivers
X-Fi Fatality sound card
Dell 2408WFP Ultrasharp @ 1920x1200.
(09-09-2010, 06:54 AM)MattF Wrote: I just found this really good explanation of why this is so if you're interested kleetus

Thanks for your reply.

I appreciate the post, but I already know what it is.

This game, by default, limits my frame-rate to 60FPS.

My monitor's refresh rate is 60.

Enabling Vsync limits the frame-rate to 60FPS.
I suggest you read that explanation again, because clearly, you haven't the faintest fucking idea of what VSync is.

[Image: 16455.png]
09-09-2010, 07:50 AM
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bblaze Offline
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#12
Solved: 3 Years, 9 Months, 1 Week ago RE: Why is the engine frame-rate limited?

One would hope that, with an attitude like yours, you'd actually have read up on the subject to back said attitude up.

MulleDK19 is right and I recommend the following three links for you to read; Wikipedia is actually usable for most articles of this kind.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertical_synchronization or http://www.tweakguides.com/Graphics_9.html for more detail
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refresh_rat...r_displays
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frame_rate#...ideo_games
09-09-2010, 11:10 AM
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Thomas Offline
Frictional Games

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#13
Solved: 3 Years, 9 Months, 1 Week ago RE: Why is the engine frame-rate limited?

It is possible to turn off. Open main_settings.cfg in "My Documents/Amnesia/Main/" and search for LimitFPS

This is also very useful if you want to use the to do some simple benchmarking.
09-09-2010, 11:31 AM
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Kleetus Offline
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#14
Solved: 3 Years, 9 Months, 1 Week ago RE: Why is the engine frame-rate limited?

(09-09-2010, 07:50 AM)MulleDK19 Wrote: Are you ignorant, or just stupid?

Here we go with the name calling. How childish....

(09-09-2010, 06:52 AM)jens Wrote: Because limiting the framrate to 60 has nothing to do with syncing the rendering to the update of the screen, that is why you need to have vsync enabled to remove the tearing.

If it limts my frame-rate to 60FPS, and my refresh rate is 60, then it's synched.

Why don't you explain how it's not?

And I don't mean Google links, I want you to explain how it's different. Can't wait to hear it....

(09-09-2010, 07:50 AM)MulleDK19 Wrote: If you get input lag at 60 fps, you've got a virus or something.

Turn off mouse smoothing in options.

Absolutely priceless. And you've got the audacity to attack my intelligence with a comment like that. Smile

It must be the dreaded input lag virus that's doing the rounds.

It's easy to remove though, no need for any anti-virus/spyware, just disable mouse smoothing.


(09-09-2010, 11:31 AM)Thomas Wrote: It is possible to turn off. Open main_settings.cfg in "My Documents/Amnesia/Main/" and search for LimitFPS

This is also very useful if you want to use the to do some simple benchmarking.

Thanks for the reply.

My original post was in an effort to understand the reasoning behind this setting, and for my own information and interest.

And why this seems to work fine, yet Vsync is broken?
(09-09-2010, 11:10 AM)bblaze Wrote: One would hope that, with an attitude like yours, you'd actually have read up on the subject to back said attitude up.

It's not me with the attitude, it's the fan bois here.

I asked a simple question, and instead I get Google links and people telling me that "I'm crying" or that I expect 150FPS.

Only two people in this entire thread actually tried to somewhat answer my question.


(This post was last modified: 09-10-2010, 01:50 AM by Kleetus.)
09-10-2010, 01:46 AM
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Eigenmusic Offline
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#15
Solved: 3 Years, 9 Months, 1 Week ago RE: Why is the engine frame-rate limited?

(09-10-2010, 01:46 AM)Kleetus Wrote: If it limts my frame-rate to 60FPS, and my refresh rate is 60, then it's synched.

Why don't you explain how it's not?

And I don't mean Google links, I want you to explain how it's different. Can't wait to hear it....
Ok, I'm not the person this was directed at, but there's a simple answer and it relies on an understanding of the term "sync"; in this context, this word is short for "synchronized". In engineering terms, this means both the frequency and PHASE are the same in two signals. Two signals can be the same frequency, but may not be the same PHASE; in such a situation, the signals are "out of phase". This is exactly what is happening when your frame rate is locked to 60fps and v-sync is disabled.

Now then, a standard LCD monitor will usually refresh its display at a rate of 60 Hz (user selectable, etc); that is to say, it redraws the picture 60 times per second with nearly perfect precision in its timing. It draws pixel-by-pixel across the screen in the same way that a page of English text is read (left to right horizontally, and then to the next line down vertically). Your graphics processor draws frames at a variable rate, and we all like it to produce frames at least 30 times per second (preferably at least 60, but I don't want anyone whining about that).

When you enable "vertical synchronization" (aka v-sync), you are telling the graphics card to only send frames to the screen at the exact moment that the monitor is planning to start drawing the next frame (when the vertical line being drawn switches from bottom to top). If that timing is off, then the monitor may start drawing the next frame while it is still trying to finish drawing the current frame (60+ fps) or may start drawing a slow frame after the monitor has drawn the same frame multiple times (59 or less fps)! That is what causes "tearing"; half the image is one frame and the other half is another frame. With v-sync on, that won't happen! The graphics processor will only send a new frame to the monitor when it knows that the monitor is ready to draw a new frame, whether that means waiting for the last frame to be drawn multiple times or producing several frames and having to throw them out.

Now, dynamically speaking, there is a lot going on here, because the graphics processor may be able to produce 60+ fps at one moment, but slow to a crawl at the next moment. Also, obviously, there is a lot more to this on the technical side of things, but that's the basic idea of v-sync.
09-11-2010, 01:47 AM
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SHODANFreeman Offline
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#16
Solved: 3 Years, 9 Months, 1 Week ago RE: Why is the engine frame-rate limited?

I can't tell a difference between 30 fps and 200 fps, so I don't know why limiting to 60 would ever matter, but anyway ...

If you're using Vista or Windows 7 and it won't let you turn on VSync, try running the game as administrator. 99% of problems I've had in Vista/7 are solved simply by running as admin.

Hope this helps. Tongue
09-11-2010, 02:17 AM
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wastedfate Offline
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#17
Solved: 3 Years, 9 Months, 1 Week ago RE: Why is the engine frame-rate limited?

(09-09-2010, 07:32 AM)Kleetus Wrote: As you're obviously a genius, explain how it's different when the limit is the same as my refresh rate?

Ugh. You don't have to be a genius to understand V-sync vs. FPS. But I will explain it to you if you want.

V-sync times the imaging so that it displays the next image after the old one is done. Limiting your FPS to your refresh rate should help with screen tear, however it doesn't actively wait until the monitor is ready for the next image. Your fps being 60 is simply a side effect of v-sync, since your monitor cannot handle more than that without screen tear. Since limiting your fps to your refresh rate doesn't do this, you still get screen tear.

Your issue with access violation is very, very, very unspecific. Only advice I can give you is try running it as an administrator.

Also, freeman, you can tell the difference up to about 60fps. Anything after that is really pointlessly wasting memory, though. This is the basic idea of animation, that displaying the images quickly gives an illusion of motion, even when your still veiwing still images. But yes, while the visual difference between 30 and 60 is minor, most people notice it. But seriously, wanting anything more than 60 fps is kind of pointless, wanting anything more than 80 or so is just stupid.
09-11-2010, 02:41 AM
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Mikezila Offline
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#18
Solved: 3 Years, 9 Months, 1 Week ago RE: Why is the engine frame-rate limited?

This thread is terrible.
09-11-2010, 02:53 AM
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nofsky Offline
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#19
Solved: 3 Years, 9 Months, 1 Week ago RE: Why is the engine frame-rate limited?

Kleetus, you really should learn to read for yourself instead of demanding that people spend their time writing long explanations when you could have just looked on wikipedia.
09-11-2010, 03:06 AM
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grzywacz Offline
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#20
Solved: 3 Years, 9 Months, 1 Week ago RE: Why is the engine frame-rate limited?

Wow, someone's got an ego way bigger than his FPS. :p
09-11-2010, 03:31 AM
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