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Bad normal errors
Tanshaydar Offline
From Beyond

Posts: 3,085
Threads: 17
Joined: Mar 2009
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#1
Bad normal errors

Well, it seems like this is starting to become a habit Smile

I'm sure if you tried to add some custom models into your mod, you encountered this problem too. This is not a problem that makes game crash or something else. But it fills the hpl.log

Like this:
Spoiler below!
Cache out of date! Reloading collada file 'D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae'
WARNING: No 'extra scene' element found!
ERROR: Bad normal 353 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 354 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 355 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 356 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 357 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 358 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 359 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 360 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 361 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 362 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 363 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 364 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 365 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 366 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 367 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 368 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 369 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 370 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 371 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 372 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 373 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 374 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 375 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 376 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 377 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 378 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 379 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 380 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 381 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 382 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 383 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 384 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 385 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 386 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 387 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 388 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 389 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 390 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 391 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 392 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 393 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 394 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 395 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 396 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 397 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 398 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 399 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 400 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 401 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 402 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 403 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 404 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 405 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 406 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 407 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 408 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 409 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 410 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 411 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 412 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 413 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 414 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 415 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 416 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 417 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 418 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 419 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 420 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 421 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 422 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 423 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 424 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 425 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 426 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 427 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 428 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 429 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 430 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 431 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 432 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 433 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 434 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 435 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 436 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!
ERROR: Bad normal 437 in mesh D:/Amnesia - The Dark Descent/redist/entities/white_night/simple_bed/bed.dae! Length is not 1. Will not cache file!


So, if anyone has any knowledge about this issue...
1) Will these cause any performance problem?
2) Regardless of first question, what is the easiest way to overcome this?

PS. All the models were exported with Blender 2.49b with the settings defined on wiki.

08-18-2011, 11:01 PM
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DRedshot Offline
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#2
RE: Bad normal errors

I don't really have any idea about how to solve it, apart from having a look at the normals in blender before exporting, or maybe try 'remove doubles' by highlighting the mesh and pressing 'W' (i think)
from the error it says 'length is not 1'. Maybe someone else can clear that up!

as for performance issues

Quote:Length is not 1. Will not cache file!

if it won't cache the file, wouldn't it increase loading times, and create a lag if the entity is spawned via scripts!

EDIT: If the model is a simple shape, and you find that some of the normals are facing the wrong way (i doubt this as you'd notice it straight away) you should be able to 'converge normals' or something similar in blender, then reverse the normals. this will not work for anything with faces facing inwards. But there might be a more intuitive way to make the normals point outwards, without having to do them individually

(This post was last modified: 08-18-2011, 11:28 PM by DRedshot.)
08-18-2011, 11:09 PM
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nemesis567 Offline
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#3
RE: Bad normal errors

They may cause performance problems, in other engines they do at least and cause lighting issues. The way to overcome this is to check the normals before exporting the models and inverting any normal facing the wrong direction.

It's a quite tedious job(1 vertex- 1 normal) but it may cause issues if this isn't corrected.

Today I dreamt the life I could live forever. You only know that when you feel it for you know not what you like until you've experienced it.
(This post was last modified: 08-18-2011, 11:11 PM by nemesis567.)
08-18-2011, 11:10 PM
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plutomaniac Offline
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#4
RE: Bad normal errors

I am full of these things especially with complex converted models. It can be fixed but modeling skills are required to fix these before you export the model in .dae format. MrBigz told me one week ago what these are but I cannot remember more details.

1) It makes loading slower, I know that from experience.
2) To edit the normals of the custom model so that their length is the normal, 1.
(This post was last modified: 08-19-2011, 12:21 AM by plutomaniac.)
08-19-2011, 12:19 AM
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#5
RE: Bad normal errors

I don't seem to get those errors with my current model. Not sure if i have to enable anything to have the engine report those errors, though.

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08-19-2011, 01:00 AM
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MrBigzy Offline
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#6
RE: Bad normal errors

If you don't see the errors, then the normals are fine.

I'm not sure if this error actually means the normals are not normalized, I remember having the problem before and fixing it somehow. However, if it cannot be fixed and you want to try to fix the normals, you have to normalize them to put them back to a unit vector length (a total length of 1). I dunno about other programs, but for Maya you can do this by going to Display, Polygons, Custom Polygon Display, and then setting normal size to 1. I'm not sure if this will fix the problem or not.

Also as nemesis said, polygons facing the wrong way cause problems, since HPL2 only register single-sided polys, which is why you can't see the texture from the inside of a model. Plus the lighting issues he mentioned. If you want to check the normals in Maya, you can see them by going to the attribute aditor (box on the very right of the screen, make sure the model is selected), going to "Name"Shape, and then mesh component display. At the bottom, check the box that says "display normal". You'll have to check your model for any normals that point inward. To do that, select the faces/vertices (depending on what you want to work with), go to the polygons menu, then Normals, Reverse.
(This post was last modified: 08-19-2011, 01:27 AM by MrBigzy.)
08-19-2011, 01:16 AM
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Tanshaydar Offline
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#7
RE: Bad normal errors

I'll try and see if the models in question causes lag by removing them and test. One of my levels has a performance issue and I think that might be the problem.

Since I don't have any modeling skill, I'll either try to do it myself or will ask for help Smile
Thanks for the replies guys. And if any of you have a free time to help me, please let me know Shy

(This post was last modified: 08-19-2011, 08:19 AM by Tanshaydar.)
08-19-2011, 08:18 AM
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#8
RE: Bad normal errors

Whatever the case, i'd recommend updating Blender to the latest stable.

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08-19-2011, 09:11 AM
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Tanshaydar Offline
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#9
RE: Bad normal errors

I had problems with blender 2.5+ versions as the exported files weren't recognized by editors. 2.59 works without a flaw? If so, same instructions on the wiki still applies, or different settings are needed?

08-19-2011, 09:13 AM
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#10
RE: Bad normal errors

(08-19-2011, 09:13 AM)Tanshaydar Wrote: I had problems with blender 2.5+ versions as the exported files weren't recognized by editors. 2.59 works without a flaw? If so, same instructions on the wiki still applies, or different settings are needed?

I've tested 2.57 and 2.59 and they both work so long as you don't try parenting any armatures to your model. I've also updated the wiki for 2.5, providing solutions; you may want to look at it if you haven't already.

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08-19-2011, 09:18 AM
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