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A little request to developers on endings
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anthonydraco Offline
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Post: #21
RE: A little request to developers on endings

Does anyone who make any suggestion can gaurantee anything? That said, do you know for certain that it's not gonna help? You ask about the difference: The difference is player's opinions on the end product affect sales, while the developers' opinions matter during the production. So when they're done working on it and decide to sell, player's opinions have the say. If you're asking if our opinion is better, we don't know, but nor do you, and nor do they.

Despite some mistake concerning your identity, I've already answered your questions. "It's up to [them] to decide to cover us or not, and it's up to [them] to do it while not losing those who already like [their] current course of decision." Some of us speak what we wish. And so what if we "merely want [our] very own ending to be implemented instead of what creator had in mind and already satisfied many"? Did it make any suggestion suddenly bad? Of course, we suggest things we want to see. Also, I didn't suggest my "very own ending." You're wrong on that account. I asked for a bit more. And even if you were right, I could still suggest it. Some people just took it personally.

I'd like to repeat a bit more: "But I think that what we suggested here are based on the premise that [they] could cover our wishes too and the game would've satisfied a few more of us/a few of us more if you do, not on the premise that what we say is better." (I should've replaced "would have" with "might have" or "could have," or maybe I should've used both of the latter two. Forgive my English.)
(This post was last modified: 11-13-2011 01:20 PM by anthonydraco.)
11-13-2011 12:53 PM
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Tanshaydar Offline
From Beyond

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Post: #22
RE: A little request to developers on endings

Nothing wrong with your English, I'm not a native speaker either.

Yeah, there is a chance that an altering might have covered a few more wishes, but at what point that could be fulfilled? Either developers will ask end-users opinion on an unfinished game, or they will change it after release. Neither of them does make sense.

If you were a developer, what would you do?
For example, a lot of people complained how White Night's end didn't make sense. However, many other people claimed that ending was perfect and none other ending could fulfill the mod's potential. After a little research, I realized that people complaining about ending missed lots of notes and flashbacks, thus didn't understand the story at all. So, how should I have proceeded? Alter the ending of a finished and released product? Or release it without an ending and ask people how they would like it?

Fact is, one never can satisfy everyone. And no one would throw away satisfied ones for the sake of unsatisfied ones.

For your second paragraph, no, you just can't justify that. Of course players could and I think should express their thoughts, I believe that's what makes games better. However, after Amnesia release, there were tons of threads how "Amnesia should've co op!!!111" and none of the posters had the basic game design knowledge, furthermore bumping the responsibility to Frictional Games' shoulders with a "if done right" phrase. It was their very own opinion, which would completely ruin the Amnesia and prevent it to become the success it is today.

You are basically talking on a chance, that could make the game better or worse. For a released game, that doesn't make any change for it is already finished. Maybe all suggestions can be taken into consideration for future games, but making a generalization like "ending should have an eye-catchy CGI treat" is just a bad idea. Again, I talk about Penumbra. Three words with white font over a black screen. A perfect ending. A CGI ending would completely ruin it and I probably would never have ended up here. Yes, maybe it would satisfy a few players, but in exchange of a huge fan-base.

Your call.

(This post was last modified: 11-13-2011 02:21 PM by Tanshaydar.)
11-13-2011 02:18 PM
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anthonydraco Offline
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Posts: 14
Joined: Oct 2011
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Post: #23
RE: A little request to developers on endings

Regarding your first three paragraphs: Are you sure you're not missing something my first post? I said: "In the next installment, can we...?" I know we talk about what Amnesia could've been, but no one says anything about changing it now. We're talking about how they might wish to consider our suggestion and bring it into account when creating the next installment.

For your custom story, if I were you, if they missed notes and such, I would find a way to emphasize those notes or flashbacks in the next installment. (If they're still important elements in your next story.) In writing, there are ways to lead audiences into reaching a certain conclusion without revealing too much. You just have to find a way. If you've already released it, what done is done. There's always the next installment if you have a mind to.

Also,
Quote:For your second paragraph, no, you just can't justify that.
Why not? As it happens, I can see no reason other than that you disagree with it. If you don't agree, fine. But it doesn't make the suggestions instantly bad. Some might be, no doubt. But you can tell they're bad because you're looking it in hindsight. Amnesia is a finished product which is optimized and is already good without those newly suggested ideas. Looking back in retrospect, I don't think explosive CG is an answer, but I was saying it figuratively than literally. Like, I want sunshine, fireworks, and virgins. Literal take on it is ridiculous. But in essence, it means something's missing and I want more in the next installment. If you disagree, fine. And I can see that arguing further won't make us agree. This is where agree to disagree comes in.

Quote:No one would throw away satisfied ones for the sake of unsatisfied ones.
Ah, but some did. Not to mention that one can find a middle ground to satisfy both. You don't have to throw away one to have the other. Some ideas can be added while keeping the old ones. You said I'm taking on chance, and it might make the game better or worse. True, but dismissing it out of hand means no chance at all. Penumbra did grow out of chance too. The first installment's combat has been criticized, the second grows out of it. Listening is the first step. Doing homework, considering if you should implement it, then deciding how to implement it (if you decide to) are the next steps. This way, 'chancy' becomes 'probably.' All this because they listened, not dismissing it out of hand. And because they did their homework. Also, there are risk in any change. And it's impossible to ask for or give 'good suggestions only.' You can only ask for or give 'suggestions.' All this kind of thread can serve is a hopeful wish to bring some ideas to developers and hope that they'd pick out some good ones. If you're not going to do their homework researching for them, you probably should leave the ideas there for them to decide. Because you're dismissing it without such important information. If they wanted to, they could do some research then make something out of the ideas. Or maybe they'll dismiss it out of hand like you did, it's all up to them.
(This post was last modified: 11-13-2011 04:23 PM by anthonydraco.)
11-13-2011 03:06 PM
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