The Machine is real -attention! sadly emotions!

[Tapetenmetzger]

(02-29-2012 08:27 AM)kman Wrote:  At this point it's really just a moral choice of wether or not you think it's right, but that doesn't change the fact that we were have adapted specifically to be meat eaters, which I think is enough to justify that it's ok to eat meat.

From that point of view it's definitely okay to eat meat. I'm fine with that, too.
Nonetheless there's lots of stuff happening in the meat production industry that's rather questionable.
Have you guys ever watched the documentary "Earthlings"? It shows quite nicely that the killing of animals in humane ways isn't exercised by every meat producing company out there and that's what's not acceptable. Apart from that there are still animals being killed for pelt and such.

[jfcwilson]

About our teeth: They actually aren't that predetor-suited, because we evolved to eat vegetables, bird's eggs and meat which we cut up using tools. Take a look at our jaw. You could not kill an animal with that jaw if you tried. It's weak. It's flat, so it can't get a good area grip. And about those incisors--practically every mammal has them, regardless of whether they eat meat. Our incisors are very underdeveloped compared to pandas for example, who eat bamboo. Gorillas are another example. These animals primarily use their incisors for threat display. The only mammals to really not have incisors are gristle-eaters. Cows, horses, etc. There are many diets between gristle and full-on meat, many of which are still herbivorious.

And I'd like to reiterate that although I myself have chosen a vegan diet, the moral minimum I'd ask of anyone is just to boycott the industrial slaughter of animals, and take up "humane" hunting for all your meat. It's the very least you can do for those animals who feed our bodies. A critical reader would see that I haven't mentioned dairy. Even more industrial cruelty goes into a glass of milk then does a steak. So if there's something you can give up, dairy is it. Unlike meat, there really is no pallateable reason not to. Dairy ice cream and milk is no better then it's soy, almond, or coconut counterparts. And there's no question that dairy is bad for you.

[Hardarm]

I'd have fun with their carcass.... AFTER they have died at least. They can't make them suffering like that!
The most part of the factory farms, I think, they don't torture animals like we see in some videos, But people who is doing that type of turture need to be cutted in dices and slices.

[Carrna]

I started a vegetarian diet about 6 or 7 years ago. It was such an unbelievable crapstorm meat eating people threw at me. I was a hippie, a carrot eater and when I got fed up of all the picking and said something to defend myself, I was "forcing them to become vegetarian too." Like... lol? Logic? What logic? Like, they're allowed to force their precious meat down to my throat but if I even mention it was an ethical, personal decision, then I'm forcing THEM? Hahaha! I can laugh at it now but back then I couldn't even do that. I got really depressed.

Then I tried to search company and support from other vegetarians, but another crapstorm followed. They said I haven't done enough. I was still eating stuff like milk, cheese and eggs and thus I was a terrible person. ...yeaa. Then I decided that screw this, I'm better off by myself without the acceptance of either of them.

I'm so tired of hearing arguments like "It must be done for food" and "I support this because I love the taste of meat." First, it's definitely not necessary. Animals are treated like shit because of people's greed. They want to produce as much and as fast as possible while ignoring the ethics of their ways. Humans don't need as much meat they're producing. Most of it is thrown away because they can't get it sold fast enough. + All the edible food people are throwing away every day. It can be done more ethically and without wasting so much food. Less animals, more room, better living conditions. But no. "Money money money must get more money mememememe." -_-

I'm sorry if this feels like rubbing it to someone's face but it's a fact: consumers are the ones who let this continue. If you buy factory farming meat products, you support everything terrible they do to animals. I'm not against eating meat, I'm against factory farming. I support organic food and hunting, because then animals can at least live free or in better environment.

[Juby]

Wow, I didn't really have an opinion on this animal cruelty issue, but then I saw that "Farm to Fridge" video. I can really just say.... wow. No painkillers, no painless ways, and the worst of all, no mercy. The workers showed no decency at all when preforming these cruel acts. I think that was the part that got me, they showed no emotion, no hesitance, nothing. I never knew mass production was like this and I can safely say that I will only buy meat from family-owned farms and such of that nature.

That video was brutal, but it shows that there needs to be a change... now!

[Wooderson]

I don't see how hunting is better than industrial slaughtering? At least in industrial slaughter houses the animals get killed in the most painless way possible. If you shoot a deer then it will die slowly depending on where you shot it, and some people just do it to stick its head on the wall... No better than poaching for elephants tusks.

[jfcwilson]

Well said, Carrna.

Quote: I was still eating stuff like milk, cheese and eggs and thus I was a terrible person. ...yeaa

Forgive me if I am repeating their words, and I'll shut up about this if you like, but I would argue that in some cases dairy animals suffer more then their meat counterparts. They get their children taken away, spend months connected to a painful sucking machine, and then they get strung up and slit just like the regular cows....

Quote:I don't see how hunting is better than industrial slaughtering? At least in industrial slaughter houses the animals get killed in the most painless way possible.

It depends. With industrial slaughtering, animals really aren't killed in the most painless way possible--they're killed in the most efficient way possible. In most cases, that means paralyzing them with blunt trauma then slitting their throats on a conveyer belt. Sometimes the paralyzing stage is skipped.
When it comes to hunting, there is a difference between your average trophy-hunting idiot and the hunter who wants comparitivly humane food. Trophy hunters never shoot a dear in the head, cause they want the head fully intact. Humane hunters shoot for the hindbrain and with an an accurate weapon it's over pretty quickly.
Yes, I think that hunting a free animal is far better then buying a piece of a creature who has never been free.

[Carrna]

^ I know. That is why I support organic food when wanting to eat something that's from animals. Also, during these years I've stopped using cow milk and changed it to soy milk. Cheese I buy only randomly, maybe once or twice in a month. I'm also a selfish one but I'm trying to cut unnecessary stuff away piece by piece.

My point was, no matter what you do someone's always complaining. I don't get it why meat fans get so upset if I don't want to eat the same beef as them. It's not away from them in any way if others want to eat more ethically. And some vegetarians and vegans' "all or nothing" opinion is something I don't understand either. I think it's a good thing if you do at least SOME choices for making things better, than are purely just "mememe." So instead of supporting me finding a vegetarian way they announced I'm a devil of some sort for not doing "enough" and not going to extreme vegan right away. That is quite an effective way to drive people away from their point of view and way of life.

[Kman]

(03-01-2012 05:36 AM)jfcwilson Wrote:  Well said, Carrna.

Quote: I was still eating stuff like milk, cheese and eggs and thus I was a terrible person. ...yeaa

Forgive me if I am repeating their words, and I'll shut up about this if you like, but I would argue that in some cases dairy animals suffer more then their meat counterparts. They get their children taken away, spend months connected to a painful sucking machine, and then they get strung up and slit just like the regular cows....

Oh my god, that's terrible! The only problem is I don't think I could really give up milk or dairy products in general just like that considering how many things I like that contain them... I'm pretty sure my parents check to make sure that they're free roaming when they're milked before they buy anything though.

[jfcwilson]

I doubt it. So-called free-roaming dairy milk is maybe 1-5 percent of the market, and of that, most are not really that good. The actual, legislative definition of "free-range" or "free-roaming" means that the animal must have an "opportunity" every day or week or whatever, to go outside. This usually means the same factory farm, just with a filthy, fenced-in yard that five cows can fit in at a time.