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PiggyPlus Mod Concept - Interactivity, Exploration, Monsters!
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NicoNico Offline
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Post: #21
RE: PiggyPlus Mod Concept - Interactivity, Exploration, Monsters!

(09-16-2013 04:07 PM)wretch Wrote:  I tested them both as chase themes, and the TDD chase theme sounds a lot better ingame than the wretch attack one.
Ah, too bad, I liked that music^^
Oh well, if it's for the best Smile
(This post was last modified: 09-16-2013 04:24 PM by NicoNico.)
09-16-2013 04:23 PM
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wretch Offline
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Post: #22
RE: PiggyPlus Mod Concept - Interactivity, Exploration, Monsters!

(09-16-2013 12:26 PM)Potato Wrote:  You know, wtf is with all these 1 star rated threads? Is there really someone rating all the non-rated threads with 1 star, srsly?

edit: sorry for off topic, but this was the most recent thread that was an example.

On topic: I'm actually kind of interested, I think it could be fun to see some more monster encounters implemented, especially with the Engineer monster, didn't you only encounter it one time in London?

You get swarmed by them when
Spoiler below!
you have to climb the pipes to escape back to London

Spoiler below!
But it's true, the Engineer monster gets very little attention in the game and that just needs to be fixed.

He was likely the monster featured in the first teaser of AMFP, also.
09-16-2013 09:57 PM
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Kairo Offline
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Post: #23
RE: PiggyPlus Mod Concept - Interactivity, Exploration, Monsters!

(09-16-2013 09:57 PM)wretch Wrote:  
(09-16-2013 12:26 PM)Potato Wrote:  You know, wtf is with all these 1 star rated threads? Is there really someone rating all the non-rated threads with 1 star, srsly?

edit: sorry for off topic, but this was the most recent thread that was an example.

On topic: I'm actually kind of interested, I think it could be fun to see some more monster encounters implemented, especially with the Engineer monster, didn't you only encounter it one time in London?

You get swarmed by them when
Spoiler below!
you have to climb the pipes to escape back to London

Spoiler below!
But it's true, the Engineer monster gets very little attention in the game and that just needs to be fixed.

He was likely the monster featured in the first teaser of AMFP, also.

I'm very sure the monster from the 1st teaser was the Wretch.

The International Narcotics Traffic
09-16-2013 09:59 PM
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wretch Offline
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Post: #24
RE: PiggyPlus Mod Concept - Interactivity, Exploration, Monsters!

(09-16-2013 09:59 PM)jeVonns Wrote:  
(09-16-2013 09:57 PM)wretch Wrote:  
(09-16-2013 12:26 PM)Potato Wrote:  You know, wtf is with all these 1 star rated threads? Is there really someone rating all the non-rated threads with 1 star, srsly?

edit: sorry for off topic, but this was the most recent thread that was an example.

On topic: I'm actually kind of interested, I think it could be fun to see some more monster encounters implemented, especially with the Engineer monster, didn't you only encounter it one time in London?

You get swarmed by them when
Spoiler below!
you have to climb the pipes to escape back to London

Spoiler below!
But it's true, the Engineer monster gets very little attention in the game and that just needs to be fixed.

He was likely the monster featured in the first teaser of AMFP, also.

I'm very sure the monster from the 1st teaser was the Wretch.

I haven't checked how they look like in a while, but I believe only the Engineer has that pipe sticking out of him, which you see the shadow of in the teaser. The monster in the teaser also seems to be walking slower than the Wretches, which is the case for the Engineer in the game. He also seems an awful lot taller than a wretch would be while walking.

Perhaps the only way to be truly sure is to check the sounds of the monsters and compare them to the sounds of the monster in the teaser.
(This post was last modified: 09-16-2013 10:05 PM by wretch.)
09-16-2013 10:04 PM
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Doomed316 Offline
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Post: #25
RE: PiggyPlus Mod Concept - Interactivity, Exploration, Monsters!

(09-16-2013 09:38 AM)wretch Wrote:  Hey guys.

Amnesia: A Machine for Pigs. Truly a great game with a deep, immersive storyline. But what about its cons? Most of the doors in the game are locked & bolted, with the amount of optional rooms in the game being minimal. And the monsters... the amount of dangerous monster encounters is low, and even then these monsters prove not dangerous enough. Too slow, too easy to outrun. Hiding in rooms, praying the monster won't come, break down the door and eat you, is a thing that no longer exists in AMFP.

What about the bugs? There are a few places that might end up having you falling out of the map or getting you stuck, forcing you to load a previous save.

This future mod seeks to fix these problems.

Features will include....

Work on the mod cannot start until the level editor is updated to work with AMFP assets. I'm just hyping up the mod early. So people can know what to expect later.

Interactivity: You'll be able to carry a lot more objects, just like good old The Dark Descent!
Last worked on: Not started

Exploration: Most of the locked doors are now unlocked and open for exploration.
Last worked on: Not started

More Pig! More Pig!: There will be a few extra monster encounters throughout the game.
Last worked on: Not started

Extra Creepy: The beefed up monster encounters will usually place you into a terrifying situation with a dark, creepy atmosphere. The atmosphere will also gain significant changes outside the monster encounters.
Last worked on: Not started

More Danger: The pig monster stats will be porked up exponentially, increasing the terror as the monsters now pose a very serious threat. Mandus will no longer regenerate health, relying on an alternate method of healing.
Last worked on: Not started

Bug fixes: I will fix whatever bug I am capable of fixing. Expect no more getting stuck or falling out of map Special thanks to everybody who contributes to the "Pigs and the Bugs" topic.
Last worked on: Not started

A few surprises: There will be 2 very special surprises. Maybe even 3! Super vague hint: One of them has something do with inventory. Let's just say I have this "something to do with the inventory" feature completely figured out already.
Last worked on: Not started

Countless of minor changes: One of the many is the old chase theme from ATDD returning, as the new one is silent and does not induce the terror the old one did.
Last worked on: 2013.09.16

sorry if I sound like a let down but the HPL2 editor won't be added to a machine for pigs due to conflicting game mechanics. The assets for AAMFP will go to the HPL2 engine for TDD and not to AAMFP with its HPL2.5 engine. I am thinking of doing the same thing but due to no mod support for AAMFP I have to do it the hard way and change variables and stuff assuming I can even convert music from TDD to AAMFP.
09-16-2013 10:45 PM
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wretch Offline
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Post: #26
RE: PiggyPlus Mod Concept - Interactivity, Exploration, Monsters!

(09-16-2013 10:45 PM)Doomed316 Wrote:  
(09-16-2013 09:38 AM)wretch Wrote:  Hey guys.

Amnesia: A Machine for Pigs. Truly a great game with a deep, immersive storyline. But what about its cons? Most of the doors in the game are locked & bolted, with the amount of optional rooms in the game being minimal. And the monsters... the amount of dangerous monster encounters is low, and even then these monsters prove not dangerous enough. Too slow, too easy to outrun. Hiding in rooms, praying the monster won't come, break down the door and eat you, is a thing that no longer exists in AMFP.

What about the bugs? There are a few places that might end up having you falling out of the map or getting you stuck, forcing you to load a previous save.

This future mod seeks to fix these problems.

Features will include....

Work on the mod cannot start until the level editor is updated to work with AMFP assets. I'm just hyping up the mod early. So people can know what to expect later.

Interactivity: You'll be able to carry a lot more objects, just like good old The Dark Descent!
Last worked on: Not started

Exploration: Most of the locked doors are now unlocked and open for exploration.
Last worked on: Not started

More Pig! More Pig!: There will be a few extra monster encounters throughout the game.
Last worked on: Not started

Extra Creepy: The beefed up monster encounters will usually place you into a terrifying situation with a dark, creepy atmosphere. The atmosphere will also gain significant changes outside the monster encounters.
Last worked on: Not started

More Danger: The pig monster stats will be porked up exponentially, increasing the terror as the monsters now pose a very serious threat. Mandus will no longer regenerate health, relying on an alternate method of healing.
Last worked on: Not started

Bug fixes: I will fix whatever bug I am capable of fixing. Expect no more getting stuck or falling out of map Special thanks to everybody who contributes to the "Pigs and the Bugs" topic.
Last worked on: Not started

A few surprises: There will be 2 very special surprises. Maybe even 3! Super vague hint: One of them has something do with inventory. Let's just say I have this "something to do with the inventory" feature completely figured out already.
Last worked on: Not started

Countless of minor changes: One of the many is the old chase theme from ATDD returning, as the new one is silent and does not induce the terror the old one did.
Last worked on: 2013.09.16

sorry if I sound like a let down but the HPL2 editor won't be added to a machine for pigs due to conflicting game mechanics. The assets for AAMFP will go to the HPL2 engine for TDD and not to AAMFP with its HPL2.5 engine. I am thinking of doing the same thing but due to no mod support for AAMFP I have to do it the hard way and change variables and stuff assuming I can even convert music from TDD to AAMFP.

Convert music? You mean add a track from TDD to AMFP? It's as easy as copypasting and renaming the file. If you want to add brand new tracks, surely it will be possible through scripting? You can edit the .hps files of the maps already.
(This post was last modified: 09-16-2013 10:52 PM by wretch.)
09-16-2013 10:49 PM
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Ideka Offline
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Post: #27
RE: PiggyPlus Mod Concept - Interactivity, Exploration, Monsters!

Aight, a couple things.

(09-16-2013 09:38 AM)wretch Wrote:  Interactivity: You'll be able to carry a lot more objects, just like good old The Dark Descent!
Last worked on: Not started
Honestly kind of pointless, but OK.

(09-16-2013 09:38 AM)wretch Wrote:  Exploration: Most of the locked doors are now unlocked and open for exploration.
Last worked on: Not started
Probably not a good thing. Have you seen youtube gameplays of the game? People get lost enough as it is. Adding a bunch of pointless rooms will only make the game harder, and it will make it easier to get stuck, and thus pulled away from the atmosphere.

(09-16-2013 09:38 AM)wretch Wrote:  More Pig! More Pig!: There will be a few extra monster encounters throughout the game.
Last worked on: Not started
OK I guess...

(09-16-2013 09:38 AM)wretch Wrote:  Extra Creepy: The beefed up monster encounters will usually place you into a terrifying situation with a dark, creepy atmosphere. The atmosphere will also gain significant changes outside the monster encounters.
Last worked on: Not started
Sounds good, but I'm willing to bet you don't know the first thing about designing a creepy atmosphere. It probably isn't as easy as you may think. Still, go ahead if you want to give it a shot. You may end up surprising me.

(09-16-2013 09:38 AM)wretch Wrote:  More Danger: The pig monster stats will be porked up exponentially, increasing the terror as the monsters now pose a very serious threat. Mandus will no longer regenerate health, relying on an alternate method of healing.
Last worked on: Not started
No. No no no no no. Don't do that. You may think a stronger monster equals a scarier monster, but that is simply not true. The player doesn't know how strong the monster is to begin with. Worse: players usually jump not when they die, but when they are hit. Being hit is scary, dying is not. If the monster is too strong, the player would die too quickly. Plus you risk making the game too hard, maybe even frustrating, completely destroying the atmosphere.
If you ask me, the best you could do is detect if the player is making an effort to survive, and make him immortal if he is. Otherwise let him die. Probably not easy to do though.

(09-16-2013 09:38 AM)wretch Wrote:  Bug fixes: I will fix whatever bug I am capable of fixing. Expect no more getting stuck or falling out of map Special thanks to everybody who contributes to the "Pigs and the Bugs" topic.
Last worked on: Not started
OK.

(09-16-2013 09:38 AM)wretch Wrote:  A few surprises: There will be 2 very special surprises. Maybe even 3! Super vague hint: One of them has something do with inventory. Let's just say I have this "something to do with the inventory" feature completely figured out already.
Last worked on: Not started
An inventory? Seriously? Truth is, since Penumbra, the inventory has been progresively becoming less and less relevant. If you ask me, it was only natural that it went away.
Even if you disagree with that, what the hell do you plan on having an inventory for, if I may ask? The game has no items for the player to store anyway.

(09-16-2013 09:38 AM)wretch Wrote:  Countless of minor changes: One of the many is the old chase theme from ATDD returning, as the new one is silent and does not induce the terror the old one did.
Last worked on: 2013.09.16
Doesn't sound bad, though I must say I liked how the game managed to have scary chases even without resorting to scary music.
09-17-2013 08:07 AM
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Fortigurn Offline
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Post: #28
RE: PiggyPlus Mod Concept - Interactivity, Exploration, Monsters!

(09-16-2013 09:38 AM)wretch Wrote:  Countless of minor changes: One of the many is the old chase theme from ATDD returning, as the new one is silent and does not induce the terror the old one did.
Last worked on: 2013.09.16

I am going to buck the trend and say the lack of chase music worked well for me. I prefer such encounters not to be telegraphed. The chase music in TDD was brilliant, and scared me witless, but without it I believe I would have been just as scared.
09-17-2013 08:18 AM
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PutraenusAlivius Offline
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Post: #29
RE: PiggyPlus Mod Concept - Interactivity, Exploration, Monsters!

(09-16-2013 09:38 AM)wretch Wrote:  More Pig! More Pig!: There will be a few extra monster encounters throughout the game.
Last worked on: Not started


More monsters + more danger = frustration

Seriously. More monsters and danger will lead to frustration and WILL kick you out of the Immersion.

More monsters + less danger/Less monster + more danger would be a great stuff.

"Veni, vidi, vici."
"I came, I saw, I conquered."
09-17-2013 09:22 AM
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NicoNico Offline
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Post: #30
RE: PiggyPlus Mod Concept - Interactivity, Exploration, Monsters!

Hey guys !

Alright, some more thought on your project^^

(09-17-2013 08:07 AM)Ideka Wrote:  
(09-16-2013 09:38 AM)wretch Wrote:  Interactivity: You'll be able to carry a lot more objects, just like good old The Dark Descent!

Last worked on: Not started

Honestly kind of pointless, but OK.
@wretch : as this would probably decrease the game's performances, maybe you should remove some of the objects. For example, there are a lot of bottles in the drawers (I mean... what's up with all these bottles in the drawers ? Every time, I was like "damn, they sure are thursty !" Tongue)
(09-17-2013 08:07 AM)Ideka Wrote:  
(09-16-2013 09:38 AM)wretch Wrote:  Exploration: Most of the locked doors are now unlocked and open for exploration.

Last worked on: Not started

Probably not a good thing. Have you seen youtube gameplays of the game? People get lost enough as it is. Adding a bunch of pointless rooms will only make the game harder, and it will make it easier to get stuck, and thus pulled away from the atmosphere.
Honestly, when I look at most of the Amnesia Let's Plays on YouTube, all I see is someone running everywhere, switching all the switches they find without knowing what they do and taking every objects they find to throw them on the walls. They act so randomly and pay so little attention, I think they would get lost on a straight corridor^^
Because, honestly, AMFP is pretty straight forward.
But you have a point because there are so much closed doors in the mansion that it could become a pain to explore every room.
@wretch : as there are a lot of closed doors in the mansion, I would suggest not opening all of them because I fear this will reduce the game's performances. Maybe remove some of them, even, so the player don't end up saying "why are all these doors open and not this one ?" Smile

(09-17-2013 08:07 AM)Ideka Wrote:  
(09-16-2013 09:38 AM)wretch Wrote:  More Pig! More Pig!: There will be a few extra monster encounters throughout the game.

Last worked on: Not started

OK I guess...
@wretch : I really do believe that some parts of the game could use one monster encounter.
For me, the game is almost perfect until the sewers. But, in the sewers, I was kind of disappointed that you don't really encounter any monster. The level is great, you can almost smell the stench. I really felt disgusted by this part, which is a good thing. But, fear ? Not really. That's the first part in the game where I began to think "Maybe it could be a little scarier".
There are a few other parts where I thought the same thing. But not much, so, don't overdo it^^
(09-17-2013 08:07 AM)Ideka Wrote:  
(09-16-2013 09:38 AM)wretch Wrote:  More Danger: The pig monster stats will be porked up exponentially, increasing the terror as the monsters now pose a very serious threat. Mandus will no longer regenerate health, relying on an alternate method of healing.

Last worked on: Not started

No. No no no no no. Don't do that. You may think a stronger monster equals a scarier monster, but that is simply not true. The player doesn't know how strong the monster is to begin with. Worse: players usually jump not when they die, but when they are hit. Being hit is scary, dying is not. If the monster is too strong, the player would die too quickly. Plus you risk making the game too hard, maybe even frustrating, completely destroying the atmosphere.

If you ask me, the best you could do is detect if the player is making an effort to survive, and make him immortal if he is. Otherwise let him die. Probably not easy to do though.
I agree on this one. Personnaly, I died 2 times during the game : on the first encounter and on the second Tesla Pig. Honestly, I don't mind that the monsters can hit me several times before dying (plus, you die after 3 or 4 hits which is not that much), they are not less scary because of that (that Tesla Pig... oh, man !).
The fact that the health regenerate doesn't bother me and it was also the case in TDD. But why not, because it could had some tension to walk in the dark with low health and a monster lurking.
@wretch I suggest you keep the regenerating health, but maybe it could be slower, like in The Dark Descent. Because if a player has low health, doesn't find health potion and must encounter more monsters that are beefed up, it can become frustrating (you know, the famous "I can't pass this f****ing part ! Every time the monster gets me, and I have no health at all ! I'm screwed ! - Rage Quit -")
As for the monsters, my only thought is that the Tesla Pig could be faster.

(09-17-2013 08:07 AM)Ideka Wrote:  
(09-16-2013 09:38 AM)wretch Wrote:  A few surprises: There will be 2 very special surprises. Maybe even 3! Super vague hint: One of them has something do with inventory. Let's just say I have this "something to do with the inventory" feature completely figured out already.

Last worked on: Not started

An inventory? Seriously? Truth is, since Penumbra, the inventory has been progresively becoming less and less relevant. If you ask me, it was only natural that it went away.

Even if you disagree with that, what the hell do you plan on having an inventory for, if I may ask? The game has no items for the player to store anyway.
I do agree that the inventory was almost useless in TDD.
Having one would also mean that you add several puzzles, which is not bad but, I don't know...
The inventory broke the rythm of the game for me in TDD. Everytime I had to go into my inventory to pick up the ONLY key I had to open the ONLY locked door, I thought "Please, Daniel, use it automatically. You don't have any other choice, so do it"
@wretch : Maybe only focus on the puzzles that use the physics of the engine. I totally understand why TCR didn't add puzzles like in TDD : it wouldn't make sense. We're in a factory and I don't see why some door should be unlocked with some complex puzzle. Everybody who works in here must be able to go everywhere, so, that wouldn't make sense. I think you should only play with the physics. You know, something like some broken pipes blocking a door or something like that.
(09-17-2013 08:07 AM)Ideka Wrote:  
(09-16-2013 09:38 AM)wretch Wrote:  Countless of minor changes: One of the many is the old chase theme from ATDD returning, as the new one is silent and does not induce the terror the old one did.

Last worked on: 2013.09.16

Doesn't sound bad, though I must say I liked how the game managed to have scary chases even without resorting to scary music.
@wretch : I already told you what were my feelings about that ^^
I love AMFP's score. If you can keep it, I would be more than happy. If you think it's best to use some of TDD's music, no problem.
But what I would highly recommand is that you don't add any music when a monster is lurking. I find it much more scary this way. I mean, MUCH more.
In TDD, at some point, it became like a routine." Alright, I hear music, so, let's look for the monster". In AMFP, with only the light flickering, I never knew if there was actually a monster, or if it was just to f**k with me. I was always tense due to that. I don't know what you thought about that, but I think you should keep that aspect. Music for chase and attack : Yes ! Otherwithse : Silence is golden Smile
(This post was last modified: 09-17-2013 11:01 AM by NicoNico.)
09-17-2013 10:56 AM
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