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What would be "Proper Jumpscares?"
Alex Ros Offline
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#31
RE: What would be "Proper Jumpscares?"

Be honest, I'd prefer "too many simple rules", not "several complex". Only because simple rules are easy to remember, even if there would really too many of them. So I got my three simple rules and it would be really nice to hear someone else advices-rules. I am sure there's a lot of such a tiny simple rules, that are just waiting to be shared Wink
(This post was last modified: 11-28-2012, 05:18 PM by Alex Ros.)
11-28-2012, 05:18 PM
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Adrianis Offline
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#32
RE: What would be "Proper Jumpscares?"

Pacing is very important, but sticking to a rule-set for pacing is dangerous. Just forget about the thing - 'jump-scares' and what makes them good or bad - let the event evolve more organically for the situation you are trying to create. Don't worry about whether its connected to an objective, a level change, or when you are exploring, just make sure it fits well with what you are trying to achieve, its just one of many tools you have - figure out what you want to do, then figure out if its the right tool for the job. Otherwise, you might find the pacing becomes predictable, even if the rule set you were following was meant to avoid it.
11-28-2012, 06:25 PM
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Streetboat Offline
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#33
RE: What would be "Proper Jumpscares?"

(11-28-2012, 01:48 PM)Alex Ros Wrote:
Streetboat Wrote:Alex Ros. I like your style. We should parlay.

Fucking google translator... I do not know that word "parlay". And fuck me for my poor English vocabulary... What that sentence "We should parlay" means?
It simply means we should talk about story ideas and gameplay decisions. Smile You have a good head on your shoulders when it comes to game design, and I wouldn't mind having someone like you to discuss these design decisions with.

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11-28-2012, 06:36 PM
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Alex Ros Offline
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#34
RE: What would be "Proper Jumpscares?"

(11-28-2012, 06:25 PM)Adrianis Wrote: Pacing is very important, but sticking to a rule-set for pacing is dangerous...
The rules are the things that are made to being broken. That's their purpose. And that is how it worked with... with painting arts for example, all those Picasso, Dali, Malevich, etc... did know the classic school of painting. And they ruined it completely, turned everything upside down.

So rules aren't supposed to narrow your fantasy and unique imagination, contrary they are supposed to help you find your own individual stories, style, features, whatever...

Clear example. I wrote by myself the rule that it's better not to link jump-scare to the objective completion. Is that true and reasonable? I think yes, because most of players are used to the fact that something happens at the moment of objective completion. BUT! By knowing that rule I can brake it by myself and make a really frightening jump-scare. For example I can let player complete... hmm... just for a example a 100 objectives and nothing happens. So the player is very relaxed that nothing happens by the completion of the objective. And here I come. BANG! At the 101 objective completion I can simply bump a player into a monster. And THAT would work great... it's just for the purest example.

Same with all the rules. You have to find them and formulate. Yeah, you really have to do that. It would make things clear, "nice and easy". But their purpose, the rules purpose is to be ruined. Paradox but true.
(This post was last modified: 11-28-2012, 11:00 PM by Alex Ros.)
11-28-2012, 10:56 PM
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The chaser Offline
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#35
RE: What would be "Proper Jumpscares?"

(11-28-2012, 10:56 PM)Alex Ros Wrote:
(11-28-2012, 06:25 PM)Adrianis Wrote: Pacing is very important, but sticking to a rule-set for pacing is dangerous...
The rules are the things that are made to being broken. That's their purpose. And that is how it worked with... with painting arts for example, all those Picasso, Dali, Malevich, etc... did know the classic school of painting. And they ruined it completely, turned everything upside down.

So rules aren't supposed to narrow your fantasy and unique imagination, contrary they are supposed to help you find your own individual stories, style, features, whatever...

Clear example. I wrote by myself the rule that it's better not to link jump-scare to the objective completion. Is that true and reasonable? I think yes, because most of players are used to the fact that something happens at the moment of objective completion. BUT! By knowing that rule I can brake it by myself and make a really frightening jump-scare. For example I can let player complete... hmm... just for a example a 100 objectives and nothing happens. So the player is very relaxed that nothing happens by the completion of the objective. And here I come. BANG! At the 101 objective completion I can simply bump a player into a monster. And THAT would work great... it's just for the purest example.

Same with all the rules. You have to find them and formulate. Yeah, you really have to do that. It would make things clear, "nice and easy". But their purpose, the rules purpose is to be ruined. Paradox but true.
Alex Ros, did you know you are a genius?

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11-29-2012, 08:15 AM
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Alex Ros Offline
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#36
RE: What would be "Proper Jumpscares?"

OH...
THAT'S AN OFF-TOPIC...
BUT SEEMS LIKE IT'S BETTER TO TELL MY STORY FOR ONCE AND NO MORE...

Spoiler below!
I do not know if I am genius or not. In particular I do not care about that, I should not care about that. To become proud of yourself is a very dangerous thing, really dangerous. Pride can turn you into a monster. I am not joking, that is very serious. I simply do know a lot of people who seriously thought they're genius. And most of them became monsters, they're angry at the whole world.

The only thing I know for sure is that 10 years ago I have invested 5 years in learning for getting the higher education. Everything is that simple, just a higher education.

Another thing I could say right now at the age of 32 is that I chose my profession badly. I thought I would become a film director while I was young. But I wasn't realistic enough to understand that my country, Russia, is nearly in ruins and there wouldn't be any qualified film industry in next 50 years or even more. That was my big mistake. Russian film industry is like a stone age film industry, I mean the quality of the movies is real low at the moment. And it will be the same until the whole new generation of producers will come. Yeah, the problem is that the people who invest their money in the production of the movies in Russia at the moment aren't real professional producers. They're just simple millionaires, who're so rich that they do not know already where else to throw their money. And they're throwing them into the production of the movies. It's cool until they come and dictate you what is good and what is bad, they think they have a right to dictate all and everything simply because they're producers, it's their money invested... here we are. Most of the modern Russian movies are just a pile of stinking shit, meaningless waste of money. That's why I left the industry. I realized I will waste my whole life on making shit. It will change, I already see it's slowly changing. But I will be too old when everything will be all right with the Russian film industry.

So I moved into a nearly unexplored industry of the viral advertising. And I can say I am happy now, because you can't make bad short-videos, if so they just won't become viral. You just have to make really provocational, actual, interesting short-movies. You have to create things that will be interesting to the people, that's the only way to make those little pieces of art viral. That's cool I'd say. I love all those short-movies virals I've made (not alone of course, with my creative partner). And I am glad that I have my higher education as a film director and a screenwriter, because without that I could not so simply move into a viral advertising industry. So finally it came out real strange. What I thought to be my mistake turn out to be a way into a different "clean" industry.

As for games and modding. I would love to move into a gaming industry. But there is simply no gamedev industry in Russia, so there's just nowhere to move. There's quite a nice gamedev industry at the Ukraine (Stalker game series and Metro game series both became worldwide popular, that's cool). But Ukraine is a different country, it's not Russia in any way. No less different than Sweden for example. So seems like the modding is just a hobby for me. I would love to turn it to my job, I mean I would love to make money on what I am doing. But at the moment it's impossible. But I am trying. The modification I've made for Stalker: Clear Sky was the most popular among hundreds. I think that is a fine beginning. 300.000 downloads in a week sounds nice I guess. The only thing I regret is that I did not know about the MODDB existence at that time... now it's too late.

Anyway, now I moved to HPL2 engine. Because I am simply in love with the incredible unmatchable interactivity of the HPL2 engine. Sadly I moved on to HPL2 alone. I was modding Stalker with a creative partner, he's a real great scripter. Web-sites programmer in reality. But he decided not to continue with modding at all, he left modding completely. So... hmm... so let's see what I could do here Big Grin
(This post was last modified: 11-29-2012, 12:32 PM by Alex Ros.)
11-29-2012, 12:28 PM
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Adrianis Offline
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#37
RE: What would be "Proper Jumpscares?"

(11-28-2012, 10:56 PM)Alex Ros Wrote:
(11-28-2012, 06:25 PM)Adrianis Wrote: Pacing is very important, but sticking to a rule-set for pacing is dangerous...
The rules are the things that are made to being broken. That's their purpose.
Now that makes a whole lot more sense, I agree completely. My apologies, I didn't see that that was the way you were presenting it




On your off-topic note (this is a strange thread in a strange forum for it, but still) I share your sentiment with regards to Russian cinema, though I know very little of it, I know that it used to be very good indeed, and that there haven't been as many great films that find their way across to the UK like they used to. I'm a big fan of a couple of Andrei Tarkovsky's films that found there way over here (UK), Solaris and Stalker. Solaris in particular is probably one my all-time favourite films. Are there any other particularly good Russian science fiction films that you could recommend?

On another note, there may not be a very well established games industry in Russia, but have you considered trying for independant development rather than trying to find a place to work? There are certainly enough video game players in Russia to support it
11-29-2012, 01:55 PM
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Alex Ros Offline
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#38
RE: What would be "Proper Jumpscares?"

(11-29-2012, 01:55 PM)Adrianis Wrote: ...
On another note, there may not be a very well established games industry in Russia, but have you considered trying for independent development rather than trying to find a place to work? There are certainly enough video game players in Russia to support it
Everything is possible I think, so I am trying and learning and making. That's the best way to break-trough into an industry, any industry. You have to just invest your time and patience and just make something. That's the only way. And of course you're absolutely right I do not even think about "to find a place to work". The only thing I am thinking about is some sort of independent little studio, no other way. And that is truly possible.

P.S. Let's stop on that, it's really not right to flood so much. There's a PMs feature!
(This post was last modified: 11-29-2012, 02:43 PM by Alex Ros.)
11-29-2012, 02:41 PM
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TheIcyPickle Offline
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#39
RE: What would be "Proper Jumpscares?"

Wow, some really interesting opinions here.

I came back to this post out of curiosity. To review some points as I plan to restart the development on my CS.

The month of November 2012 really brought some interesting and useful tips. I found however that there is essentially a list of things not to do.

There are many things one can do to effectively scare a person. Jumpscares are an option, and can be done well and it seems the poofer or naked guy is used too often. Good, meaningful jump scares should be implemented to create a diverse CS. (If it goes with your story and vision of course)

The advice in this thread, although got a little off-topic, was very genuine and real, much appreciated.
03-24-2013, 05:03 AM
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