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2015-05 Wednesday 15th, SOMA is now in beta
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Traggey Offline
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Post: #21
RE: 2015-05 Wednesday 15th, SOMA is now in beta

I'll just leave that stuff to proven game designers, I completely disagree with you.

Alot of people DID have issues with the interaction in amnesia, it was something you got used to absolutely, but every single new player I saw playing the game had problems opening doors for example, and I've seen let's plays of people getting stuck on puzzles simply because they didn't know how to interact with the environment.

It's a good way of making the game alot easier to play for alot of folks, and keep in mind, they've stated themselves that SOMA is not going to be as intense as amnesia, they're going for a more casual experience.
04-25-2015 11:47 AM
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Googolplex Offline
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Post: #22
RE: 2015-05 Wednesday 15th, SOMA is now in beta

(04-25-2015 11:47 AM)Traggey Wrote:  Alot of people DID have issues with the interaction in amnesia, it was something you got used to absolutely, but every single new player I saw playing the game had problems opening doors for example, and I've seen let's plays of people getting stuck on puzzles simply because they didn't know how to interact with the environment.

How dull must a game still be? Amnesia is not for 6-year olds! When 10 million people can play inaccessible games such as Skyrim or The Witcher, how the hell will someone have problems with Amnesia's controls, where you only have to use WASD, Mouse, Space and Tab? There are no tons of keys and fuctions like in other games!!!

Amnesia has by far the easiest and most precise controls I ever enjoyed in a game. Moving objects with the mouse feels like you would really be in the world and grab objects with your hand. People who have problems with that just need to learn how to play a game first!!! It's not the fault of a game when people aren't able to figure things out.

(04-25-2015 11:47 AM)Traggey Wrote:  It's a good way of making the game alot easier to play for alot of folks, and keep in mind, they've stated themselves that SOMA is not going to be as intense as amnesia, they're going for a more casual experience.

Then I have a very bad feeling of what SOMA is going to be. That's the exactly reason why once good games like Need For Speed or even Gothic and Risen got ruined by making it more casual. Because the publisher wanted to make it more accessible for the mainstream. Dulled down the gameplay and added tutorials for 12-year olds!

So I think old games are often much more immersive and better than the modern casual crap which is just made to sell fast. Traggey, I managed to play Silent Hill 1 on PC with an emulator!

Why to make doors not just opening automatically by a single mouse click? Why to MOVE the mouse first? That could be too difficult for the players.Dodgy
(This post was last modified: 04-25-2015 01:21 PM by Googolplex.)
04-25-2015 01:13 PM
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Traggey Offline
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Post: #23
RE: 2015-05 Wednesday 15th, SOMA is now in beta

''It's not the fault of a game when people aren't able to figure things out.''


Yes it is, actually. A game needs to teach the player how to play it, back in the days we had instruction manuals to do this for us, now however, it is all done in-game.

Also I do have to ask what's so amazing about playing SH1 on an emulator..? I've done it myself and it wasn't exactly dificult.
04-25-2015 01:53 PM
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Googolplex Offline
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Post: #24
RE: 2015-05 Wednesday 15th, SOMA is now in beta

(04-25-2015 01:53 PM)Traggey Wrote:  ''It's not the fault of a game when people aren't able to figure things out.''


Yes it is, actually. A game needs to teach the player how to play it, back in the days we had instruction manuals to do this for us, now however, it is all done in-game.

A game does not have to teach the player how to play it. Rather the player has to learn it automatically by playing the game. There is a difference. I am not a fan of complicated controls, anyway this is not what Amnesia have. But the problem is when a game speaks to me like in a turorial which key I have to press etc. That always reminds me to play just a game and kills the immersion from the beginning.

So I like games like Penumbra, Amnesia, Gothic or Indiana Jones Infernal Machine that start smoothly and chilling where you have enough time to experiment things out and learn how to play it automatically. No action, no fights, no hectic rush! Only you, who's thrown into a world of danger and have to walk your way deeper into the story. Anyway modern games are much more easier to control than old ones and people are still overwhelmed? In the early 2000's nobody criticized the controls. There were no tutorials, no info messages how to play and it's the era where the best games came out. A good game must not be hardcore, but it must be immersive and well designed to ensure a serious experience and not a casual 0815-xbox arcade game you play with a joystick and where everything get explained.

Look at this here how tutorials are annoying: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHJyMAQNDhE

That's the tutorial, the worst start sequence of all games I ever played. How casualized this game is! Feels like conventional EA triple-A shit and this from a developer who was always known for professional design for all these years. A shame how game developers become more and more mainstream oriented.


(04-25-2015 01:53 PM)Traggey Wrote:  Also I do have to ask what's so amazing about playing SH1 on an emulator..? I've done it myself and it wasn't exactly dificult.

You say Amnesia is difficult to play, but SH1 with an emulator not? Oh man, sorry, but that could not be serious.
(This post was last modified: 04-25-2015 03:17 PM by Googolplex.)
04-25-2015 02:31 PM
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Traggey Offline
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Post: #25
RE: 2015-05 Wednesday 15th, SOMA is now in beta

I never stated I personaly had any problems with amnesia, I'm saying I've seen many others have them.

Even if you might not like it, OTHERS have had issues with it, so it is good to implement a way for as many people to enjoy it as possible, we are not talking about long introduction tutorials, we are not talking about EA rushing out games, we're talking about god damned heads up display icons.

This game is not amnesia, things are different and thus the designs in the game must change to accomodate for those changes. If they've decided they should put those in, then there is a good reason for it. What I am saying is that you should trust the developer with these choises seing as they actually know what they're doing, unlike you whom have never developed anything or even played SOMA.

They are just heads up display icons, nothing more, this little thing can make the gameplay alot more suitable for a larger audience and it barely changes anything, this is good for both players and the company itself, get of your high horse.


You could also look at it this way, what if the character is wearing some sort of helmet providing the heads up display in the world itself? That this helmet is programmed to help with this stuff? It would fit into the narrative and make sense. But you don't know if that's the case or not.

A hardcore game is hard because it requires skill
Figuring out which way a valve turns is not a skill
(This post was last modified: 04-25-2015 03:54 PM by Traggey.)
04-25-2015 03:38 PM
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Googolplex Offline
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Post: #26
RE: 2015-05 Wednesday 15th, SOMA is now in beta

But I don't like it! Such HUD icons damage the immersion for me.
And when OTHERS have problems with the controls, they have to learn. To make it easier just for a small group of casual people will only annoy the old fans!

(04-25-2015 03:38 PM)Traggey Wrote:  A hardcore game is hard because it requires skill
Figuring out which way a valve turns is not a skill

No. Hardcore does not mean that a game is just difficult as killing bosses in Dark Souls.
Hardcore means that it's anti-mainstream and less casual. An experimental or stubborn game that does its own thing!
(This post was last modified: 04-25-2015 05:04 PM by Googolplex.)
04-25-2015 04:58 PM
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Traggey Offline
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Post: #27
RE: 2015-05 Wednesday 15th, SOMA is now in beta

I'm an old fan, I'm not annoyed, speak for yourself! Big Grin

And uhm, I completely disagree with you on your definition of a hardcore game, but something tells me that's not discussable with you.

Anyway final post here, YOU learn to live with it, not everyone else.
04-25-2015 05:19 PM
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Googolplex Offline
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Post: #28
RE: 2015-05 Wednesday 15th, SOMA is now in beta

You are the person with that is unable to discuss man.
Go to the EA forums and don't talk about the design of a proper game from that you have no knowledge.
(This post was last modified: 04-25-2015 05:34 PM by Googolplex.)
04-25-2015 05:30 PM
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Slanderous Offline
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Post: #29
RE: 2015-05 Wednesday 15th, SOMA is now in beta

(04-25-2015 04:58 PM)Googolplex Wrote:  But I don't like it! Such HUD icons damage the immersion for me.
And when OTHERS have problems with the controls, they have to learn. To make it easier just for a small group of casual people will only annoy the old fans!

(04-25-2015 03:38 PM)Traggey Wrote:  A hardcore game is hard because it requires skill
Figuring out which way a valve turns is not a skill

No. Hardcore does not mean that a game is just difficult as killing bosses in Dark Souls.
Hardcore means that it's anti-mainstream and less casual. An experimental or stubborn game that does its own thing!

I guess Dark Souls or FNaF are not mainstream games then.
(This post was last modified: 04-25-2015 05:41 PM by Slanderous.)
04-25-2015 05:40 PM
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Statyk Offline
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Post: #30
RE: 2015-05 Wednesday 15th, SOMA is now in beta

(04-25-2015 05:30 PM)Googolplex Wrote:  You are the person with that is unable to discuss man.
Go to the EA forums and don't talk about the design of a proper game from that you have no knowledge.

Good lord man, Traggey is a game designer. I'm 100% sure he knows what he's talking about. I'm all for differing opinions but I can't help but think what you said so far was just wrong... This is one of the pettiest complaints I've ever come across for any game. If a few icons with arrows ruins your immersion, how are you going to have fun in games anymore? C'mon, you're better than this.
04-25-2015 05:57 PM
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